I had a minute, so I figured I'd go look at Rod Dreher's blog for some crazy.
He's nothing if not reliable:
There’s a racist joke that speaks to an ugly truth here: “Q: What do you call a millionaire black brain surgeon? A. [racial slur].” The idea is that for people who hate black folks, nothing that black folks do matters; it’s who they are that the racist cares about.
Got that? OK. Take a breath. Now:
Similarly, for many (though certainly not all) modern people liberal conviction, it doesn’t matter that orthodox Christians serve the poor, or do good in their own communities. What matters is their stance on homosexuality.
Him and the New Black Panthers ought to rap about this. Keep building bridges, Brother Rod!
How is Rod doing good in his community? Cultivating its self of victimization? Stoking fears and hatreds? Ripping off his readers with badly-written odes to his victimized youth?
ReplyDeleteQ: What do you call an orthodox Christian that serves the poor, or does good in his own community?
ReplyDeleteA. An orthodox Christian that serves the poor, or does good in his own community.
See, Rod, it don't work.
...Hitler? He forgot about Hitler.
ReplyDeleteQ: What do you call a millionaire black brain surgeon?
ReplyDeleteA: If you're talking about Ben Carson, a homophobe..
Just because you ladle out soup once a month to the poor, you aren't excused for siding with and abetting the behavior of those who create and sustain the poverty you see before you.
ReplyDeleteAsshole.
Similarly, for many (though certainly not all) modern people liberal conviction, it doesn’t matter that Rod Dreher serves the poor, or does good in his own community. What matters is he is a no-writing dumbass with zero capability for self reflection who could be taken for a broad old comic parody of a scold, except there's no humor to be found in him. He's a miserable old bitch and loves it.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, for many (though certainly not all) modern people liberal
ReplyDeleteconviction, it doesn’t matter that orthodox Christians serve the poor,
or do good in their own communities.I'm having a hard time coming up with any modern liberals of my personal acquaintance for whom this doesn't matter. Many of them are small-o orthodox Christians.** Others are observant Jews of various traditions, a couple are Muslims, etc. Even the atheists are willing to risk religion cooties for a good cause. But yes, when the subject comes to using the power of the secular state to impose purely sectarian religious beliefs on others, or denying people equal civil rights, then we liberals part company with many (though certainly not all) of the more conservative religious types. On the bright side, very few conservative Protestants are involved in doing fuck-all to substantively help people, so that makes the compartmentalization a lot easier.
**Yeah, I know, Rod, they don't count as "orthodox" Christians unless they subscribe to your very particular load of pigshit. So, in a spirit of ecumenical cooperation, fuck off and die in a grease fire, you pathetic reactionary shit.
Similarly, for many (though certainly not all) modern people liberal
ReplyDeleteconviction, it doesn’t matter that orthodox Christians serve the poor,
or do good in their own communities. What matters is their stance on
homosexuality.
To be fair, we're not wowed by all the charity work the racist does, either.
Rod really is the gift that keeps on giving isn't he? And that really is the most self serving analogy I've seen put forward by a putative sane person today. I'll spell it out: black people are still black regardless of their accomplishments does not map to "people who want to oppress and/or hurt gay people" are still "people who want to oppress and/or hurt gay people" regardless of the other good things they do.
ReplyDeleteAmazing how many contortions many Christianists go through to avoid confronting the words of their main guy, in their main book.
ReplyDeleteDoing good for the poor and your community is what you're supposed to do, Rod. "Orthodox" my ass.
You know, if modern liberals are ever going to move beyond their stereotyping, maybe some big-O** Orthodox Christian could use his blog to emphasize helping the poor, or otherwise doing good in one's community. Or, alternatively, he could rant nonstop about the evil fags, and then accuse liberals of making it all about homosexuality. 'Cause that could work, too.
ReplyDelete**Hehehehehehehe
If it's Ben Carson, the answer to "What do you call him" is "An ambulance to get him back to the insane asylum."
ReplyDeleteWhat do you call an orthodox Christian that serves the poor, or does good in his own community, but seems to think the Bibles tells him it's OK to hate gays?
ReplyDeleteA fucking bigot. And my taxes serve the poor, and I'm fine with that, and think they should serve them something better than Government Cheese™, so fuck you some more.
I think he wants his cookie...
ReplyDeleteThe distinction Rod and so many others miss here is that a big part of doing good is NOT DOING BAD. Sure, you're a saint for helping the poor in your community. But if you're spreading hatred toward homosexuals, whatever good you're doing with the poor is basically just ass-covering that's wiped away by your hatred.
ReplyDeleteA defendant in a backlog of malpractice claims?
ReplyDeleteWell, now, it is mighty white of them, you must admit...
ReplyDelete"But, my lord! When did we ever see you sick, or in prison, or homeless?"
ReplyDeleteAnd he answered them saying, "That ye have done for the least of these, my brethren, ye have done for me."
And the righteous were dismayed.
Hah...I had that in there before.
ReplyDeleteCheck off all the boxes, Rod. I'm sure you'll get the reward that's coming to you in cookie heaven.
Yup. "Okay, maybe I try to withhold fundamental rights from filthy deviants by enshrining my own grab-bag of superstitions into law. But I also volunteer at a homeless shelter (No homos!). Why do liberals have to set the bar for basic decency so high?"
ReplyDeleteBut I also volunteer at a homeless shelter (No homos!)
ReplyDeleteThat would be a homoless shelter, surely?
Huh. I wonder where Pastor Rod is hearing all these racist jokes.
ReplyDeleteGotta make sure the poor are always with us, you know.
ReplyDeleteWhat evidence is there that Rod Dreher does anything for anyone other than himself? Other than writing Christian apologetics and being mawkishly sentimental about his sister's hard won community he doesn't seem to lift a finger,locally, for the poor and dispossessed. He's lucky that homophobe and hypocrite are the worst words that are tossed his way. At least those both link him, tangetially, to the religion he pretends is his.
ReplyDelete. . . rant nonstop about the evil fags, and then accuse liberals of making it all about homosexuality.
ReplyDeleteThis covers pretty much ALL of the conservaChristians. Devote all your energy, time, and public declamations to making sure homosexuals are treated like sub-humans. And then complain that those liberals are obsessed with teh ghey because the liberals point out what a monster you are.
Or, alternative shorter: Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?
ReplyDeleteI think he made an error with his metaphor. Clearly he meant to say, it doesn't matter how much good a Klansman does in his community, because all those liberals want to do is condemn him for his sincerely held beliefs regarding race relations. It's terribly unfair.
ReplyDelete"...you screw one goat..."
ReplyDeleteAlso: why do all these fucking homofags keep noticing that I am calling them fucking homofags and trying to get them killed? How rude of them.
ReplyDeleteI was waiting for that one. How apposite.
ReplyDeleteWhat little good most of these people tell themselves they do is helping members of their own tribe/parish/cult, not reaching out to any- & everybody.
ReplyDeleteRod really is the gift that keeps on giving isn't he?
ReplyDeleteI must say I'm not sure why you needed a tanker truck full of self-justified whining, but yes: Rod's just the one to deliver that.
You know, "orthodox": An Xian who fears/hates homos just as much as Jesus did, but is a lot louder about it.
ReplyDelete…21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' and also
ReplyDelete5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.…
Just how many ways can Rod be wrong?
Now come on Derelict, sure, they spend a lot of time, energy and public declamations to make sure homosexuals are treated like sub-humans, but they ALSO work hard to make sure that women, blacks and latinos are marginalized as second-class citizens too. You can't paint them with such a narrow brush.
ReplyDeleteAll of them.
ReplyDelete"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." (Matthew 6:2).
ReplyDeleteRod's is a fascinating vision of Orthodox Christianity. Wanting praise and attention for good works means that you are not following Christ's teachings. Indeed rather than salvation such people have already received all the reward they will get. How do you receive God's reward? Funnily enough earlier in the book, Jesus tells us that, among others, "Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5). So, shut up, don't ask for kudos, and start the hard work of bringing about God's Kingdom on Earth without reference to the approval of the people around you Rod's resentment on behalf of other Christians is the least Christian thing about him.
But who knows, I'm a godless liberal so I don't know anything about the Bible or the social teachings of the Gospels.
Q: What do you call an orthodox Christian that serves the poor, or does good in his own community?
ReplyDeleteA: Troy Polamalu
I want to scrape it off with a strigil.
ReplyDeleteYou know "Rod virtuously devotes himself to defending America..." reminds me of Mitt asserting that his sons were helping defend America by staying out of Iraq and helping him get elected, and Jonah Goldberg asserting that he was doing his part by writing whatever drek he could in support of the culture wars at home.
ReplyDeleteQ: What do you call a laughably closeted rigidly anti-gay obsessive with a stick up his ass who uses religion like a crutch for his bigoted beliefs?
ReplyDeleteA: Rod.
If you were a homophobe, you wouldn't have time for such liberal activities.
ReplyDeleteRod reminds me of the local Republican politicians' youtube video of their ALS Icebucket Challenge'
ReplyDeleteNone of them, I can assure you,had any idea what they were doing except some self-promotion. One of the dumb fuckers even says "ALS is a great organization".
They elected him to the state house.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1518144565064935
Micah 6:8--He hath shown thee, O man, what is good: and what doth the Lord require of thee but to do justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
ReplyDelete(Signed, Former Evangelical)
Maybe if I were a homophobe I'd have time for even more! I think that is what Rod thinks.
ReplyDeleteAnswer: yes, yes and yes. It's hard to fit in a shift at the local soup kitchen when you have to fly around the country promoting a new book. There just aren't enough hours in the day.
ReplyDeleteNo, "orthodox", a flavor of Christianity whose insignificant size means any of their scandals don't make headline news all over the world, so it's dozen or so practitioners can pretend to some kind of relative moral and doctrinal purity.
ReplyDeleteOK, just in case it doesn't make it past moderation here's my contribution to Rod's little skree with whine fest:
ReplyDeleteAimai says:Your comment is awaiting moderation.
May 6, 2015 at 3:20 pm
I’m puzzled by this entire post. You seem to be advocating letting people know you are Christian by your love, love, love but, on the other hand, you are storing up grievances like a teenage girl on a coffee and sugar high. You are upset because, inter alia, a President elected by voters of all kinds including LGBTQ voters didn’t choose to have someone who is opposed to their civil rights speak at his inauguration? You are upset because a local public official, whose very job is paid for with everyone’s tax dollars, thought that a group which was opposed to the civil rights of LGBTQ taxpayers didn’t belong in a publicly funded school?
Also you seem to think that charitable works are done primarily by Christians and that the charitable works of other Christians should lie, like a soothing balm, across the homophobic bigotry of some other Christians. I, myself, cook for two separate homeless shelters, work with new mothers and infants in two different groups, and tutor an immigrant high school student on a weekly basis. I am neither Christian nor homophobic. I don’t seem to need my good works to be rewarded by your god, nor do I need to use them to excuse my policy preferences.
You should probably try doing some actual good works and stop worrying about whether other people are giving you credit for them. To go to a book you are presumably familiar with:
5″When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6″But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.…
← Older Comments
Oh, you noticed a common theme? Other than the fact that they're lying sanctimonious hard-right shitheels who believe that taxes and military service and sacrifice are for other people.
ReplyDeleteNot enough upvotes in the world for this.
ReplyDeleteTake two hypocrites out of petty grievances before you leave for the day.
Just how many ways can Rod be wrong?
ReplyDeleteThe more traditional form of this question is "Can G_d make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?" so you'll probably need a theologian.
The beam in Rod's eye is 12" and throbbing.
ReplyDeleteBeing against gay marriage doesn't make you evil, but it does make you a homophobe. Sorry Rod, that's just the way it is - being a Good Person doesn't nullify your bigotry. Throughout history, there have been some truly virulent racists who did wonderful things; they were still racists, though, and you're kind of obliged to mention that when discussing them.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that of the two sides here, it hasn't been the pro-gay side suggesting that their opponents are sinister scheming monsters trying to destroy civilization on behalf of the devil. Just sayin'.
Rod does provides us an answer to "Can God make a rock so dense that she can't penetrate it?"
ReplyDeleteNow why would anyone think Rod is more committed to hating gay people than to helping the poor? I mean, he devotes several posts a day to complaining about income inequality and economic injustice, the inadequacy of the safety net, the political class's indifference to poverty issues, etc. He constantly warns darkly about a "Benedict Option," the nature of which is unclear, but it seems to involve Christians forming hermetically sealed communities in which the poor are treated humanely. He's always wailing about how Christians who want to serve the poor are mocked and sneered at. Roy, I think you're being very unfair to Rod.
ReplyDeletethe pro-gay side
ReplyDeleteI have to object to this framing because it does buy into the notion that we (liberals) are promoting homosexuality. We're not--we're promoting the notion that someone's sexual orientation should have no bearing on how they're treated by the state, by the law, and by their fellow humans.
Q: What do you call a black Rod Dreher?
ReplyDeleteA. Obtuse hack douchebag.*
* I don't see color.
Now why would anyone think Rod is more committed to hating gay people than to helping the poor?
ReplyDeleteIt might be due to Rod's obsessive writing about how gay people are ruining everything and oppressing true Christians like him by pointing out that hatred is not a Christian virtue.
Your sarcasm detector is on the fritz, Derelict.
ReplyDeleteAh!
ReplyDeleteMaybe, but that concept of framing disgusts me so much that I no longer feel a need to play word games. Terms like "pro-equality" reek of propaganda and I don't wish to participate. I consider myself "pro-gay," and I don't really care if the latest edict is that that's not the "proper" phrasing.
ReplyDeleteWhatever they do, however they do it, it'd good enough for gawwwww-DAH!
ReplyDeleteIt's up there.
ReplyDeleteGet a room, you three. Then Rod Dreher can denounce you on his blog.
ReplyDeleteWorking for Pat Buchanan and Taki Theodoracopulos?
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine.
Aimai, this is the first time I'm learning about all the good you do, but it's not surprising to me in the least.
ReplyDeleteWe are just leaving room for the holy ghost.
ReplyDeleteOh snap.
ReplyDeleteWell--you don't know for sure that i'm a good cook so it remains to be seen whether its as good for them as it is for me.
ReplyDeleteMine was too--I almost asked if this was a poe but couldn't figure it out.
ReplyDeleteWhat matters is their stance on homosexuality.
ReplyDeleteApparently Dreher is now the Pope of Orthodoxy and gets to impose 'homophobia' as a central doctrine.
Since Rod is being all seamlessly Biblical, can we inquire as to his community's stance on wool-linen blends?
ReplyDeleteFollowing Rod's logic, "their stance on homosexuality" is equivalent to "who they are". If I had characterized Christians as being that shallow, Rod would whine in a key that only dogs could detect.
ReplyDeleteI'm not even a Christian and it annoys the piss out of me how Rod keeps banging on about how gay-hating Christianity is the one true Christianity. Blah, blah, blah, family, family, gays, gays. The Bible can be used to support pretty much anything, but some messages require a lot of contortion and the idea that homosexuality and abortion are major concerns requires Reed Richards.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess if Rod could grasp the idea that he doesn't actually get to impose on others what they should believe, he wouldn't be Rod Dreher.
Catholicism will not be having with same-sex marriages. Nor Judaism. Yet people do not go around saying What matters is Catholics' stance on homosexuality.
ReplyDeleteIt's only Rod, having converted to orthodoxy, who insists on defining which doctrines are binding upon every other member of the religion.
Sorry. Probably assumed more familiarity with Dreher's oeuvre than was warranted. Tweaking comment now.
ReplyDeleteAnd here I thought that only Christians do good works. An atheist working at a soup kitchen? Unheard of.
ReplyDeletedo good in their own communities
ReplyDeleteI am not convinced that it is 'charity' if you restrict it to your family and mates.That Samaritan dude was not worried about "his own community".
we shall underwhelm, we shall underwhelm,
ReplyDeletewith intellecutally sloppy arguments
Can Rod make an argument so dense that even God can't parse it?
ReplyDeleteNow over in Russia, their branch of Orthodoxy is edging closer to imposing 'homophobia' as a central doctrine. Because Putin loves him some gay-bashing to bolster his political support, and as a way of demonising his opponents, while His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia is doing his best to join Russian Orthodoxy at the hip to its old persecutors in what used to be the Communist party... because that's where the money and power are.
ReplyDeleteshorter every rod dreher.
ReplyDeleteHm-m, Christians are the niggers of the new world. If only; then they might have something to complain about. Fuckin' whiners.
ReplyDeleteEven if they ladled soup out to the poor every day and gave away all of their disposable income to support low income housing, they wouldn't be excused from discrimination. You can't buy your way out of hateful acts.
ReplyDeleteSo a four-way then?
ReplyDeleteOh, I think Cristoforo Colombo's logs pretty much spelled out who were the Christians and who were the slaves in the new world.
ReplyDeletetaxes and military service and sacrifice are for other people
ReplyDeleteIn addition, I can't help noticing that the loudest squawkers at NRO about the need for a higher White birthrate to close the Demographic Gap are themselves childless. Parenting - it's so important, someone else should do it.
Yeah yeah but giving money to the poors is bad because their own bootstraps, silly.
ReplyDelete~
To be fair, Pope Francis seems to actually be doing this. I mean, minus the "blog" part.
ReplyDeleteSome folks actually get it.
Don't even try. They'll be too busy picking the shrimp-bits out from between their teeth to answer you.
ReplyDeleteWell, admittedly, "Jesus freak," "Bible-banger," "Bible-thumper" or "fundie" don't rise to the meanness implicit in "kike" or "sheeny" or "raghead," but they are out there, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteI changed "new" to "modern", but point taken. Those bastards never had a chance. Conversion? Salvation? It is to laugh. "Just keep digging, motherfucker. And sorry about the syphilis." In Spanish, of course.
ReplyDelete"Sólo seguir cavando, hijo de puta. Y lo de la sífilis."
ReplyDeleteThis is complicated by (of course!) Brother Rod himself, because the One True Christianity seems to be the one that Brother Rod has embraced in the past week. The rest of us have no little trouble keeping up with the changes on the menu.
ReplyDeleteNone of those would work in the "joke" because they don't have the meanness you mention. And they don't have the same impact because they haven't been coupled with actual persecution the way Jews, Muslims, blacks, etc, have experienced.
ReplyDelete(of course, I am speaking of orthodox protestant Christians in America. Other sects of Christians and/or in other times and/or in other locations have actually been persecuted. But not Rod's crew.)
Also tons of them, such as mackrel snapper or the frozen chosen are actually christian slurs that are thrown inter-sectionally.
ReplyDeleteWell done, good and faithful blogger.
ReplyDeleteI want to take this comment for some plein air and thick impasto.
ReplyDeleteWhen will the persecution of Straight Christians by the Gays end? Has no one taken to heart the lessons of Rod's Letter From the Bathroom of a Tenderloin Leather Bar ?
ReplyDeleteWell, there's "Cretins", if it's not too outdated...
ReplyDeleteStop calling the homeless homes "Shirley"!
ReplyDeleteStop calling the homeless homos 'Shirley'!
ReplyDeleteWell, my goodness, they have to be sure they're deserving, don't they? And properly grateful, which god knows those heathens wouldn't be...
ReplyDeleteI think I'd call Rod Dreher an old-fashioned closeted homosexual. One of these days he'll come Out and nobody will be surprised or care.
ReplyDeleteIn the short time he's been in Raleigh, he's confirmed the worst suspicions of his own party, who feared he was too drunk and stupid to do anything but gum up their works. He's already boning the saddest species of groupies, and getting drunk off his ass an hour's drive from home.
ReplyDeleteHe couldn't even get through a campaign speech without slurring or blacking out, but he sucked enough Granville and Person County Klan dick to establish his bona fides as a hatemonger, and it was enough.
I've looked at this creature close up, and he was roasted on some combination of alcohol and pharmaceuticals then. This was a meet the candidate's forum. Red faced old Mississippi born fratboy. He'll likely die in his car on the way home from a pusser.
Q: What do you call a black Rod Dreher?
ReplyDeleteA. A nagger.
And he should have several wives and at least one concubine. Ten children at the least.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I argue with Bible stories, and other times I shout "The bible is just a stupid book written by thousands of people over thousands of years!" And slam the door.
ReplyDeleteOh yes we do.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was in college, I spoke with an old guy who'd visited the Church of the Nativity. He spoke with one of the Palestinian guards, who told him there was a knock-down drag out between various factions of Christians on a near daily basis, and he was looking forward to retirement.
ReplyDeleteThis was back in the 1920's.
It's better to punish them for being poor because then they will stop being poor, having learned that it's much better to not be poor.
ReplyDeleteThat is why the poor should never have food that tastes good. If they actually like eating "free" food they won't go out and get that third job.
Man does not live by bread alone. He also needs butthurt.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me started on who faces the altar and who doesn't. Or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
ReplyDeleteOr: The novel further describes an intra-Lilliputian quarrel over the practice of breaking eggs. Traditionally, Lilliputians broke boiled eggs on the larger end; a few generations ago, an Emperor of Lilliput, the Present Emperor's great-grandfather, had decreed that all eggs be broken on the smaller end after his son cut himself breaking the egg on the larger end. The differences between Big-Endians (those who broke their eggs at the larger end) and Little-Endians had given rise to "six rebellions... wherein one Emperor lost his life, and another his crown". The Lilliputian religion says an egg should be broken on the convenient end, which is now interpreted by the Lilliputians as the smaller end. The Big-Endians gained favour in Blefuscu.
Well what's the point then, Alfie?
ReplyDeleteCole and Atrios have already linked to this, but THIS is what persecution looks like:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/05/06/this-isnt-1968-baltimore-isnt-watts-and-hillary-clinton-isnt-michael-dukakis/
Rod wouldn't know how to cope with the real thing.
Wide, uh,er, broad.
ReplyDeleteThe whole idea of "religious freedom" as envisioned in the early years of this country was a means of keeping Christians from slaughtering each other. It's a passion with them.
ReplyDeleteSect hopping god-botherers should really just shut the fuck up....
ReplyDelete...
Rod ending up on the losing side of the gay marriage issue really caused him to go off the deep end in a lot of ways. I suspect it has its origin in his upbringing where he was pretty far down towards the bottom of the social totem pole but could console himself with the idea that, "at least I'm not as far down as the gays." And now he realizes that he will get punished for looking down on them, too.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget how, according to Rod, just existing as a black person is morally equivalent to opposing the civil rights of some citizens.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of "laughably closeted", Google "Rod Dreher" + "Harrison Brace". Interesting...
ReplyDeleteRod's inauguration, as envisaged by Rod.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4QM0RsxtLQ
This somewhat corroborates my take on Rod that his anti-gay stance is sort of a persona he adopted in an attempt to become the "ideal conservative gentleman." And now he's pissed that all that anti-gay stuff he adopted turned out to be regarded now, even among many conservative elites as socially reprehensible. He thought conservatism was going to be the ticket to success and his ticket out of St. Francisville to great things, and it turned out to be for nothing.
ReplyDeleteMight be time to watch that again, ugly as some of it was.
ReplyDelete"Harrison Brace"? Really? If I was writing gay porn, my nonexistent editor would say "nah, too obvious."
ReplyDeleteI have space left in my secret attic hiding place for one more bigot.
ReplyDeleteI would like to give this comment a generous supply of bricks and mortar (bring your own amontillado).
ReplyDeleteThere may be hope for us yet...
ReplyDeleteWhoopsy!
ReplyDeleteI cannot tell you how astounding Rod's post is. Rod and I were friends for decades. He and I *were part* of a very active bisexual/homosexual community in a small town. (A magnet boarding school in Natchitoches LA). On weekends we'd go to my parent's place in the quarter, spend weekends in the gay bars.
Sure, liberals can become conservatives, maybe Rod became straight. But it's a categorical *lie* to claim that he's shocked by bisexual teens.
Posted by: Harrison Brace | May 17, 2009 at 04:34 PM
Most Americans are not real aware that there's another kind of Christianity besides Catholic and Protestant.Orthodox Christians. I mean, there's Mike Dukakis, largely faded from memory outside of Southern New England. Tom Hanks, but do people really know or care about his religion? So "Orthodox Christians are homophobes" would be the answer to a question no one's really asking. Underneath Brother Rod's thin cry of "Let my people go!" there's not much except for epic self pity.
ReplyDeleteI know Orthodox Christians, if by that you mean Greek Orthodox, and some Syrian Orthodox too. There may be a strongly anti-gay strain in their dogma but they are as likely to be personally ok with gay marriage as anyone else around here (in MA).
ReplyDeleteWhether he means Greek and Syrian Orthodox - or small "o" orthodox like he fancies himself to be - is something I've never been able to nail him down on. The Christians you mean he'd probably dismiss as insufficiently true Scotsmen.
ReplyDeleteHa. If anyone's promoting homosexuality, it's God. He keeps making them, don't he?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Rod himself can never fail Christianity. But Christianity can and will continually fail Rod.
ReplyDeleteThat only makes it more impressive that he can see the motes in so many other eyes.
ReplyDeleteSurprise surprise. There's a new way to be a clueless asshole, and Richard Cohen is getting in on the ground floor.
ReplyDeleteTo borrow a metaphor from Louis CK, it's like he has a fortune in money from a country that no longer exists.
ReplyDeleteThe Harlem Popetrotters!
ReplyDeleteYa know, the vast majority of Christians who serve the poor or do good in their own communities don't make a big deal about homosexuality. Even in the Roman Catholic Church in these here United States, almost 60% of the laity supports same-sex marriage.
ReplyDeleteThe bigots are losing their war in the pews, their court fights are a desparate rear-guard action, IYKWIMAITTYD.
"Yes, for the love of God."
ReplyDeleteI saw this on a text scroll on a TV in a bank. "Oh, that sounds adorable," I thought. Now that I have seen a picture, I can confirm that it is INCREDIBLY ADORABLE.
ReplyDeleteDreher's argument seems to be that Christianity is gradually losing the privileged position it has been granted by the state for centuries, and that soon, being a Christian will mean nothing more than having an individual belief system. That lets you feel morally superior to everyone else.
ReplyDeleteWorks for me.
That's actually my favorite part of the whole fucking Bible. Just imagining the looks on their faces...
ReplyDeleteIsn't it about time he was getting in the ground?
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Dreher I hope this thread isn't dead because man oh man is this amazing. I followeddown the rabbit hole of reading Harrison Brace's comments and found Rod Dreher accidentally reprinting and commenting on a two year old article about Lesbians vs. Muslim Barbers in Canada.http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-iran-iraq-culture-war-canada/ The point he was making was that Lesbian Provocateurs were going to force Muslim Barbers into cutting their hair but that Muslims, being mas macho than Christians, would probably win (by cutting off her head) or at least availing themselves of the right to refuse service. But after his readers point out that the case had been resolved two years ago, in an undisclosed (i.e. non inflammatory way), this is how he bitchily attempts to retrieve his tattered manhood:
ReplyDeleteUPDATE: As a reader points out in the comboxes, this story is two years old. Argh! It’s all over the Internet now as a new story. I have got to learn to check the dates on these things. Anyway, it was resolved by the two parties on undisclosed terms, and the plaintiff went on to become US Secretary of State.
almost 60% of the laity supports same-sex marriage.
ReplyDeleteWhich drives Rod bonkers. Those people are simply engaging in what he calls Therapeutic Moral Deism (or something along those lines). In other words, if your version of Christianity isn't as severe as Rod's, you're doing it wrong.
You can really tell from Rod's topics of interest and his bitchy asides that he peaked in the 90s and is always trying to go back to those "greatest hits."
ReplyDelete"it doesn’t matter that orthodox Christians serve the poor, or do good in their own communities."
ReplyDeleteRod, what does that have to do with the "Christians" you hang out with?
And that his secret model is Paul Lynde.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly where his logic breaks down.
ReplyDeleteHe's drawing an equivalency between being Christian and being African-American. He says that a Christian's stance on a specific political issue is what makes that person a Christian.
If I assume that those two things are true, the logical conclusion would be that an African-American could change his race by changing his stance on some specific political issue.
Since this cannot be true, neither can his initial premises.
I don't, but I am willing to sample extensively and let everyone else know.
ReplyDeleteChrist, what an asshole.
ReplyDeleteYou don't say?
ReplyDeleteWondered if anyone was going to point out the obvious dog whistle.
ReplyDeleteYes, he maps the victims of race bigotry to the perpetrators of anti-homosexual bigotry, and the race bigots to the folks pointing out anti-homosexual bigotry. I still have a bruise on my jaw where it hit the floor.
ReplyDeleteThere's a whole sub-economy centered around liking and sharing posts on Facebook that effectively lets you take credit for the good deeds of others by passing on pictures. Rod has absolutely no compunctions against cashing in someone else's chips.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience here in New England, it is the more liberal congregations that do the most work with the poor. And I get the feeling that if conservative Christians feed the poor, it's after a lengthy sermon -- ie a blatant pay-for-pray scenario which is too coercive, in my mind, to speak well of them.
ReplyDeleteDoes that mesh with anyone else's experience?
Exactly. "Bring back indulgences!" should be part of the conservative nostalgia-for-all-the-wrong-things platform.
ReplyDeleteYup. For every .02 cents the conservative christians give to charities in time and money, they take $5 out by cutting foodstamps, medicaid, and every other damn thing that will drive people into poverty.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, that's probably something Mother Theresa would approve of. She didn't want to end suffering so much as sanctify it.
I thought the stink from a dead raccoon in the attic was bad. that's going to be an order of magnitude worse.
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of like the most tedious fan fiction ever written. I never finished it. Did Jesus and Jehovah finally ever kiss?
ReplyDelete.Ahem. Harrison Brace is a real individual with a significant web history who has been alleging Dreher's naughty past for years - and has even provided alleged pics of the two of them hanging out together when they were younger. Not that there's anything wrong with that....
ReplyDelete...unless you believe Rod Dreher's dogma, that is.
Boom! Goes the dynamite.
ReplyDeleteNo need to bring them back--they never really left. If you wave enough money at the church, you're forgiven anything and everything. Recall that Gianni Versace was given a high-holy funeral mass despite being openly gay. Or that Alfonse D'Amato was granted an annulment of his 23-year marriage.
ReplyDeleteI don't know . . .
ReplyDeleteLast time I had a party with him, the Holy Ghost completely trashed the room, then stiffed me for the damages.
It's like that moving Aerosmith song says: "If you can judge a wise man / by his oppression of a minority / than mister you're a better man than I / we're living on the edge."
ReplyDeleteWell I'll bite. What does it matter if Christians "do good in their own communities?" I don't get any special credit for making breakfast for myself, or putting on my own clothes, or taking out the garbage in my own house. Why should I? Those are, definitionally, not charitable acts. They are Biden and Non Biden literally self serving.
ReplyDeleteConsider the Lilies of the Field, they toil not, neither do they spin. Bronze Age for "Don't worry, be happy."
ReplyDeleteHow about "someone who does bad in his community"?
ReplyDeleteFor modern conservatives, Jesus is an ultra-extreme leftwinger who needs to be suppressed.
ReplyDeleteWalking around the a baguette up your ass is no way to go through life, Rod.
ReplyDeleteParenting - it's so important, someone else should do it.
ReplyDeleteFor once, I have to agree with them. None of them should be allowed to reproduce.
So, an upstanding conservative in every way, then?
ReplyDeleteWhen they're not gnawing on a ham-and-cheese sandwich.
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean to deny his existence, merely commenting on the unlikeliness of his name in this context.
ReplyDeleteYes. Or, to put it through the De-Satirizer (tm), your being persecuted for the way you were born is no worse than my being persecuted (i.e., called a name) for actions I've chosen to perform and statements I've chosen to make.
ReplyDeleteRod doesn't want to be pope. Depending on the direction of the wind and other (moonshine related) factors, the Catholic church one or more of the following: the whore of Babylon, a nest of idolaters, a hopelessly secular modern debasement of old time religion or child molestation racket with a snazzy medieval drag uniform. No, he styles himself as His Self-Righteousness Patriarch Rod Dreher the First of his Name and Witchsmeller Pursuivant of the Storefront Genuine Original Old Rite East Baton Rouge Orthodox Church with Signs Following, Benedict Optional but Strongly Recommended.
ReplyDeleteLet's see how he responds.
ReplyDeleteIt works this way: Blacks are, of course, born Black.
ReplyDeleteBigots like Rod are, of course, born again Christians.
See the similarity?
"First the Jesus, then the soup," as the saying goes.
ReplyDeleteI've read a LOT of Rod Dreher over the years. A LOT. To the point where I can piece together the narrative of his life that he's constructed for himself, and the Harrison Brace comments are damning. His life narrative is that he was a young Christian conservative living in DC when his gay roommate felt "threatened" and "unsafe" after finding out he was a Christian and conservative... and this led him on his life journey of "discovering" that the gays were a dangerous, oppressive force conspiring against him and his fellow conservative Christians.
ReplyDeleteAnd now we realize that the story is mostly BS-- he had plenty of exposure to gay friends in his social circle. His bad experience in DC wasn't the clash of two naive, sheltered people clashing for the first time in the outside world-- it was a self-invented narrative of a guy who decided to join "team conservative" and decided that he was now socially superior to the outcasts he used to hang out with when he was younger, and was going to make sure they knew it.
Q: What do you call a millionaire black surgeon?
ReplyDeleteA: Hamilton E. Holmes. Wasn't a homophobic bigot, either.
All the best religions bear a message from God that's so good, so powerful, so compelling
ReplyDeletethat new adherents must be brought in by force or subterfuge.
Ohhhhhh. It was "naggers."
ReplyDeleteQ: What do you call a millionaire black brain surgeon?
ReplyDeleteIs "Doctor" acceptable?
I wasn't assuming that you were, because I thought the same thing when I read the name. I was just throwing that out there as an intriguing tidbit.
ReplyDeleteI want to take this comment to the neighborhood black church potluck, fill it up on cornbread, blackeyed peas, and porkchops, give it a big fucking AMEN and then take it home, tuck it in, stroke its hair and say goodnight.
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of a variation on the hairshirt, no?
ReplyDeleteSuck ups gotta suck up. Very interestingcomment, tyro, I came to Dreher rather late,and through individual crunchy con essays rather than through a curated approach to his highly constructed"life" story. But it makes perfect sense. If you read David Brock's story I think there are certain similarities in genre. Both are modern day Horatio Algers--in the sense that they are outsiders and poor boys who realize early that sucking up to rich people in a certain niche will be their ticket to a good job. Like some kind of supersensitive mole rat they sniff out opportunity, realize that they can be paid for it, and then craft the self they put out there in order to fully market themselves.
ReplyDeleteSomething else I've just realized in writing this comparison is that misogynists and the MRA's often accuse women of using their personal biographies to break into popular journalism (Dooce, the various mommy bloggers) and excoriate them for trading on the private and the personal instead of engaging in "real" journalism. But Dreher, and Lileks both mine a certain vein of the personal is political but its something like "post gay/post liberal white boy angst."
Is it an argument, or an extended pity party?
ReplyDeleteDude, you should never use your own attic.
ReplyDeleteSacrifice post-9/11 by going to the goddamn mall.
ReplyDeleteSpoiler alert: Jesus gets boned so hard he passes out for three days.
ReplyDeleteThey explain this one away by pretending that their obsession against women's reproductive health/choice covers "the least of these." Actual living people? Fuck 'em.
ReplyDeleteNo crab legs for you!
ReplyDeleteIn fairness, he might mean "their own communities" in the broader sense of city, town, village, hamlet, or census-designated place in which they live. Though there's obviously something to your reading as well; my own father is willing to offer assistance as long as he thinks the recipient is (1) a Real True Christian, or (2) sufficiently amenable to conversion.
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to let the Corleones know!
ReplyDeleteWhy are you surprised? Rod's goal, as always, is to maximise the amount of self-pity available to him. He could be driving a bulldozer over the mass graves of everyone he imagines hates him, and he'd still find a way to feel sorry for himself.
ReplyDeleteThat verse, more than any other, got me spiritual. "Alan Watts, call your office."
ReplyDeleteTrue but geographic communities are pretty segregated in this country--isn't that one of the reasons Rod moved back to StFrankieVille? Because he wanted what Durkheim called Mechanical Solidarity: all the people are basically the same, interchangeable parts in a system based on similarity. A husband is always a husband. A child is always a child. A farmer is just like any other farmer and everyone farms.
ReplyDeleteRod's entire shtick is recognizing that communities are bigger, more diverse, multicultural, and filled with people of different backgrounds, interests, politics, sexualities, and histories than his own. But he has literally rejected this by moving home. And he has philosophically rejected communion with them for his whole adult life after he started failing to build a safe niche in large cities. So he might pretend he means their communities, writ large. But a glance at Rod's work shows that he doesn't believe the rest of us live in communities at all. We are deracinated, scurrying, inhumane, non communal, damned souls wandering the earth making demands on the good people. For heaven's sake he explicitly is advocating for his Benedict Option which removes the good communities and saves them from contact with the rest of us. Like the body of the country is a cancer.