Wednesday, April 01, 2015

RFRA ROFL: MORE WRECKAGE FROM THE INDIANA CRACK-UP.

Some of the libertarians are getting very worked up over this Indiana thing. Makes sense; after all, the real issue behind all the cake-and-florist agitation is public accommodations as a civil rights issue and, as you may remember from Rand Paul's spirited if temporary stand against the Civil Rights Act, libertarians have never fully accepted the justice of making white people do business with black people, so making straight people do business with gay people must seem to them a gruesome flashback.*

Timothy P. Carney, for example, has thoroughly melted down at the Washington Examiner, doing a better impersonation of Carol Newquist from Little Murders even than David Brooks:
Religious liberty is the terms of surrender the Right is requesting in the culture war. It is conservative America saying to the cultural and political elites, you have your gay marriage, your no-fault divorce, your obscene music and television, your indoctrinating public schools and your abortion-on-demand. May we please be allowed to not participate in these?
Gays, abortion, jungle music -- the injustice never stops.
But no. Tolerance isn't the goal. Religious conservatives must atone for their heretical views with acts of contrition: Bake me a cake, photograph my wedding, pay for my abortion and my contraception.
This will make a great schtick for pride parades: Big Gay puppets lumbering down Fifth Avenue hissing BAKE ME A CAAAAKE!

But for sheer entertainment value you can't beat the religious maniacs. The Anchoress claims she's been busy with some holy shit and after a brief Indiana post scuttles back to it, but in between riddles us this:
There is a staggering amount of hysteria and outrage being spewed about Indiana’s RFRA by many of the same people who — just mere weeks ago — were spewing in hysterical outrage about the nation’s growing so-called “rape culture”, and this despite disputed claims that 1 in 5 women are raped on college campuses, and a highly dubious accusation of gang rape on a college campus.
See, you and your gay friends are all liars. Rape liars!
Rape, of course, is an indisputably heinous act; because it forces a woman to engage in something she does not want to do, it must always be roundly decried and despised by all sane people.
That's kind of a strangely mild description of rape, isn't it -- "forces a woman to engage in something she does not want to do"? Makes it sound like dusting, or going to her boyfriend's office party. Eventually we see why Thee Anch portrayed it thus:
But, that being the case, what shall we make of the fact that, for the most part, the very same entities who (disputed “rape culture” claims aside) quite rightly insist that a woman should never, ever be forced to engage in acts against her will, have pivoted toward Indiana to demand that “other” people be forced to engage in acts against their wills?
Should governments, or new agencies, or pundits for that matter, really be positioning themselves over people and telling them that if they do not submit to what is demanded of them — and engage willingly — then they will be forced to take it, and like it?
 This is the real War on Women: dusting, rape, and gay cakes.
Doubtless someone will say, “these two issues are not at all the same.”
Wow she's pyschic!
I’d argue that to the people being shoved down, they look exactly alike. 
I’m going back to my project. Comments remain closed.
SLAM! When she comes back, watch out for the spraying hot chrism.

UPDATE. Normal comments policy is, when we delete a troll, we also delete comments in response, but I must say those comments are still pretty funny out of context, so carry on and good job all around.

UPDATE 2. * That's why Ramesh Ponnuru is so calm about the nearly-even split in public opinion over this issue. In the context of the fake story these guys have been pushing -- evil libtard homos versus Christianity -- this would be a disturbing result, since it would suggest America is divided over "religious liberty." But in view of the real goal -- which is to trim back our traditional understanding of civil rights -- it's actually an advance.

302 comments:

  1. coozledad9:19 AM

    Rape, of course, is an indisputably heinous act; because it forces a woman to engage in something she does not want to do



    They still believe rape is sex, and consent is pegged to the dollar.

    ReplyDelete
  2. redoubtagain9:27 AM

    The Anchorless, despite her busy schedule, (1) comes out in favor of government-sponsored bigotry, and does this while (2) exhausted from the hernia she sustained moving the rhetorical goalposts.

    ReplyDelete
  3. susanoftexas9:30 AM

    I’m going back to my project. Comments remain closed.
    Is she finally walling herself in like a proper Anchoress? It's about time. I thought people who did not want to be part of this cold, cruel world were supposed to get themselves to an abbey instead of demanding the entire world become their church.

    ReplyDelete
  4. coozledad9:34 AM

    Pythoness would be a better name for her. She sounds like she's sitting over a vent inhaling vapors anyway.


    One call to a reliable plumber might fix this.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Mana Butterfly9:35 AM

    But, that being the case, what shall we make of the fact that, for the most part, the very same entities who (disputed “rape culture” claims aside) quite rightly insist that a woman should never, ever be forced to engage in acts against her will, have pivoted toward Indiana to demand that “other” people be forced to engage in acts against their wills?Oh, joy. Yet another conservative who can't grasp the elementary concept of informed consent.


    Why are social conservatives such creepy, domineering perverts? I don't mean pervert as in kinky folk such as people who dress up in animal costumes or go to BDSM clubs -- I mean perverts. Subway gropers, pedophiles, date rapists, so on. Whether it's shoving TVUs up women or laughing at pregnant sex slaves or sneering at prison rape, conservatives are the biggest perverts imaginable.

    ReplyDelete
  6. coozledad9:38 AM

    I mean perverts. Subway gropers, pedophiles, date rapists, so on.

    I was going to add fratboys, but that's just redundant.

    ReplyDelete
  7. It is conservative America saying to the cultural and political elites,
    you have your gay marriage,Yup, we've got our same-sex couples wanted to be treated with basic decency. Got us there. your no-fault divorce,You might want to check the regional breakdown on those divorce figures, Tim. your obscene music
    and television,You might want to check the regional breakdown on those porn consumption figures, Tim.
    your indoctrinating public schoolsYeah, it's awful the way we indoctinate by opposing officially-endorsed sectarian Bible study and prayers.and your
    abortion-on-demand.... Oh, fuck you, you miserable lying shit. We've spent the decades since the progressively-more-restrictive Roe framework was handed down watching misogynist pusbags like you pile on bullshit restrictions and requirements, closing women's health clinics left and right because JAY-sus. So die screaming in a fire, you crusty diseased pig's asshole.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Halloween_Jack9:50 AM

    Religious liberty is the terms of surrender the Right is requesting in the culture war. It is conservative America saying to the cultural and political elites, you have your gay marriage, your no-fault divorce, your obscene music and television, your indoctrinating public schools and your abortion-on-demand. May we please be allowed to not participate in these?

    "Just give us a few fags to bash and we'll go away and let you have your Game of Thrones boobs, promise." And as if they would ever, ever stop trying to chip away at abortion rights and public schools.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Oh, and of course Timmy's article is titled "The Left Wages Total War and Then Plays Victim." Says the guy shrieking about religious liberty over the backlash from Indiana passing a draconian civil-rights-destroying bill. To borrow a Ted Cruz mannerism, imagine being able to capture the waste heat from all those projection bulbs.

    ReplyDelete
  10. coozledad9:59 AM

    The problem is, they never die screaming in a fire. That, like everything else, is left for some other poor bastard to do:


    Scott County, Indiana, the center of an exploding HIV outbreak, has been without an HIV testing center since early 2013, when the sole provider — a Planned Parenthood clinic — was forced to close its doors. The clinic did not offer abortion services.

    The Scott County clinic and four other Planned Parenthood facilities in the state, all of which provided HIV testing and information, have shuttered since 2011, in large part due to funding cuts to the state’s public health infrastructure.


    H/T Juanita jean.

    ReplyDelete
  11. M. Krebs10:03 AM

    Bake me a cake, photograph my wedding, pay for my abortion and my contraception.


    Sez Neil Patrick Harris whilst administering a cat'o'nine-tails to Rush Limbaugh clad in a rubber suit and handcuffed to a drain pipe in a dank, Fincher-esque basement.


    I think it's the beginning of a great script!

    ReplyDelete
  12. JennOfArk10:04 AM

    And of course, our fair state, having seen what Indiana hath brought upon itself, steps up and says, "we want some of that!"

    ReplyDelete
  13. To be serious for a moment, this (as in Carney's attempt, not the one from everyone's least favorite fake nun) is going to be the next big theocon tactic. They've seen the polls and know that, unpopular as they are, people are still generally on their side when it comes to the public accomodation issue. So while the real nutters are going to keep screaming about "artificial children" and other things that will repulse the normals, the more media-savvy are going to grab their knees and go for the penalty shot. It could work, although given that these goobers cry "persecution" every time a TV show airs that they don't like, the public might be a little numb to their bullshit.

    Speaking of optics, the rest of the folks on their side could really use a lesson in how not to sound awful. Let's start with this: Never, ever say anything that's even similar to "Rape is bad, but..." You can blame the press all you want; Fact is, most people have a instantly visceral reaction to shit like that.

    ReplyDelete
  14. (Forget it, I'm rolling.)

    The dogshit icing on the pigshit cake? As Mr. Edroso alludes to, Timmy Boy is supposedly schmibertarianesque. "Your obscene music and television"? I thought you guys were supposed to be the cool ones who think the free market can do no wrong. What's next, railing against Demon Weed?

    (To maintain my endless quest for fairness on this subject, though, Carney pretty genuinely fails to be a Scotsman, which is presumably why he's at AEI instead of Cato. Even some dusty libertarian corners of the internet were derisive about his so-called "libertarian populism" gobbledegook.)

    ReplyDelete
  15. JennOfArk10:06 AM

    I suppose we should be grateful she didn't claim that being forced to bake a cake for a same sex couple is the same as the Holocaust. No, it's not quite that bad - it's only as bad as being physically restrained and having someone shove something unwanted into your body.

    ReplyDelete
  16. When she comes back, watch out for the spraying hot chrism.Gay marry me, Edroso.

    ReplyDelete
  17. "Religious conservatives must atone for their heretical views with acts of contrition: Bake me a cake, photograph my wedding, pay for my abortion and my contraception."


    These people are demanding that we accede to their point that "business people", by baking cakes or photographing weddings, are PARTICIPATING in the wedding. They are not... unless they were invited, which they would be within their rights to decline, they are engaging in commerce and providing a service. Now, you would think this is definitely not the same thing, until the Wingnut Brain Trust starts arguing that I.G. Farben was only engaging in commerce with the Nazi death camps by providing them with Zyklon B, and therefore wasn't at ALL complicit in the Holocaust. Hey, I think I'm on to something here... I wonder if Tim Carney would be interested in this?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Which, as long as it's a government-mandated transvaginal ultrasound, is really no big deal either.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Franc Kuffman10:09 AM

    Umm, you used the Holocaust to scream about Indiana bill. And Jim Crow. And slavery.

    ReplyDelete
  20. JennOfArk10:10 AM

    I did? Link, please.

    ReplyDelete
  21. "Seduction by other means." I can't imagine where anyone get the idea that theocons are bad on sexual assault.

    ReplyDelete
  22. coozledad10:13 AM

    being physically restrained and having someone shove something unwanted into your body.


    Plus intimations of murder.


    But I think the "intimations of murder" part is so ingrained into their nasty little lives they don't even recognize that leitmotif of rape anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Franc Kuffman10:13 AM

    Arkansas' timing is very good. Liberals have already chosen Indiana as their battleground. The narrative won't move because it would confuse to many of them and spread them out too thin. Germany made that mistake in WWII.

    ReplyDelete
  24. JennOfArk10:14 AM




    I see Mr. One Comment Disqus account is just pulling shit out of his ass.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Franc Kuffman10:14 AM

    You was meant collectively, as in the liberal collective.

    ReplyDelete
  26. JennOfArk10:14 AM

    Link, please.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Franc Kuffman10:15 AM

    Long time lurker first time commenter. Big admirer of the blog.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Why are social conservatives such creepy, domineering perverts?

    That would be a long and complicated explanation, but Libby Anne's "two boxes" model gives a pretty good explanation. Social and religious conservatives don't think of sex in terms of consent but in terms of sinfulness. They don't believe that rape and, say, consensual gay sex are equivalent, but they do put them on a spectrum where the only different is degree.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Brother Yam10:18 AM

    I’d argue that to the people being shoved down, they look exactly alike.

    ...blink
    ...blink

    Getting raped looks exactly like baking a cake?

    ReplyDelete
  30. coozledad10:18 AM

    I can't understand why anyone would compare slavery and racism to racism and slavery.
    Next thing you know, they'll be saying Wounded Knee and Sandy Creek were acts of genocide.

    ReplyDelete
  31. LittlePig10:18 AM

    to the people being shoved down

    OMG the giant gay puppets are *eating* them too?!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Now Jenn, I'm sure there's a trollish commenter on a low-traffic blog somewhere that he can cite as proof that THE LEFT IS HOPELESSLY BIGOTED.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Jeffrey_Kramer10:19 AM

    Doubtless someone will say, “these two issues are not at all the same.”


    We have to imagine The Anchoress delivering this line with the kind of moan of exasperation offered by, say, the the flat-earther: "Doubtless some brainwashed soul will bring up those photos of the earth taken from space."

    ReplyDelete
  34. coozledad10:20 AM

    You is need some prescription head drugs.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Franc Kuffman10:21 AM

    Another Kristallnacht

    As the son of parents who survived the Holocaust (and the grandson of some who didn’t) this feels very much like a prelude to another Kristallnacht. So as a member of the technology industry, I feel incredibly proud of the stand being taken by Benioff and Salesforce.

    ReplyDelete
  36. JennOfArk10:22 AM

    Yes, you're a "big admirer" of the blog, who just happens to have weighed in for the first time ever with a trollish, unsubstantiated comment....and just by coincidence, to have addressed it to the only commenter on the thread with an obviously feminine name!


    Nothing like this has ever happened before.

    ReplyDelete
  37. coozledad10:25 AM

    Yeah. Hitler's simultaneous invasion of Indiana and Arkansas was doomed from the start because the sonofabitch was too cheap to get a AAA card.

    ReplyDelete
  38. JennOfArk10:25 AM

    Who knew that Forbes was part of the "liberal collective"?


    Of course, the other interpretation would be that the Indiana law is so blatant that even a conservative publication like Forbes can't fail to grasp its implications.


    And of course, that interpretation would be the one that sails right over your pointy little head.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Shorter Rightwing/Glibertarians: "See this thing over here? Some call it an orange. See this other thing over there? Some call it a dental probe. These things are exactly alike, and it's only your libtardness that keeps you from seeing that these are identical. Otherwise you would agree that people of faith should be allowed to hate in the name of Jesus."

    ReplyDelete
  40. LittlePig10:28 AM

    Who knew that Forbes was part of the "liberal collective"?

    I saw that link and hurt my nose snorting. Ahh yes, that progressive bastion Forbes. Sheesh.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Sometimes you just have to remove the entire outfall pipe.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "So die screaming in a fire, you crusty diseased pig's asshole."


    Ooh... you're so UNCIVIL! Therefore your entire argument is invalid!

    ReplyDelete
  43. Franc Kuffman10:30 AM

    OMG, I can't believe you just said that. Pollen is horrible right now here and woke up this morning with the worst sinus infection. It's like you knew that somehow. I'm freaking out. Good call, sir.

    ReplyDelete
  44. I really liked how he offered this litany of offenses and ended with "we just want to opt out." I'd say, no need to opt out of public education because you have all proven to be utterly impervious to learning. As for the "obscene music and television," as MDS noted, he needs to take a look at his own brethren. The Blue States alone are certainly not enough of a market to make these things staples of the airwaves (and, BTW, he should listen to some of that "wholesome" country music about getting drunk and bagging random chicks in a bar). And as for abortions, if you don't like 'em, don't get one.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Liberals have already chosen Indiana as their battleground.On the other hand, it's the Arkansas law that has Walmart's panties in a twist. Probably because it's run by liberals, but still.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Can we get that in Smell-O-Vision?

    ReplyDelete
  47. gocart mozart10:34 AM

    And another thing, why is the State raping me with its mandatory seat belt laws and speed limits?

    ReplyDelete
  48. Ooooh! Can I officiate at the later mandatory gay abortion? Can I? Pleeeeeze?

    ReplyDelete
  49. Well, I do agree that fundamentalist Christian people of faith should be allowed to hate in the name of Jesus. I mean, it's pretty much all they've got at this point.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Franc Kuffman10:37 AM

    I'm smarter than you, Jennifer. You'd appear more principled if you now started screaming about your own backwoods back yard if you really cared about gays suddenly bring kicked out of restaurants, but you know that's not where the battle's being fought right now.

    How many gay weddings have you attended n the past year? How many gay marches? How many have you asked over for dinner that weren't already close friends? How many transgendered persons did you offer to accompany into public bathrooms or stand outside in close watch so that they weren't beaten up by anyone? What is your involvement save for writing on a blog things that safely conform with the prevailing groupthink?

    ReplyDelete
  51. Well, you're certainly welcome to attend, but we'll be forcing a Southern Baptist pastor to officiate. And bake the cake. Hey, maybe you can handle the paperwork when all our aborted babies go on welfare.

    ReplyDelete
  52. JennOfArk10:40 AM

    Donalde, go back to pulling your pud at your pathetic little blog.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Ahh... the old If You Can't Be Everywhere Doing Everything For Everybody, You Might As Well Admit You're A Failure And A Hypocrite dodge. Well played, sir!

    ReplyDelete
  54. Franc Kuffman10:43 AM

    Go back to doxxing folks who you disagree with, Jennifer. Talk about Nazi tactics. That's your brand of activism.

    ReplyDelete
  55. coozledad10:44 AM

    I'm smarter than you, Jennifer.

    I'm proud of the stand being taken by Dunning and Kruger

    ReplyDelete
  56. gocart mozart10:45 AM

    Forbes is now part of the liberal collective. Next we shall assimilate the Heritage Foundation and the Chamber of Commerce and total victory will be ours BWAHAHAHA!

    ReplyDelete
  57. Franc Kuffman10:47 AM

    Except that's where she is currently, satch.

    Not well played, sir.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Franc Kuffman10:48 AM

    I indeed am, but I'm allowing for the fact that it in no way is being boastful. It's just how the cards were dealt. It's life.

    ReplyDelete
  59. After reading the anchoress my jaw is literally on the floor. My mouth is so open I Hope no one shoves anything down it.

    ReplyDelete
  60. JennOfArk10:50 AM

    Says the guy who thought "Sasquatch IsReal" was some kind of attack on the Jewish state.

    ReplyDelete
  61. coozledad10:51 AM

    Fondant/Sade

    ReplyDelete
  62. JennOfArk10:52 AM

    Yeah, see, Donalde here is psychic - which explains how he had no idea that I was down at the state capitol on Monday encouraging the trogladytes who currently form a majority in our legislature to vote against this very bad idea.


    As satch said, well played, Donalde!

    ReplyDelete
  63. susanoftexas10:52 AM

    Or exterminator.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Franc Kuffman10:53 AM

    gocartt,

    What do you think should be the punishment for baker who refuses to make an S&M cake for a bondage group?

    Jail? Fines?

    ReplyDelete
  65. LittlePig10:54 AM

    I believe the difference is that Indiana's only specifies government discrimination, while our nutjobs wrote it to include private business as well.

    Hypocrites and Pharisees, praying loudly at the public square. Verily they will have their reward.

    ReplyDelete
  66. What? What? Isnt this precisely why lgbtq people need extra government protection as a class? Because none of us can be everywhere at once to defend their civil liberties and leaving civil rights up to what legal anthropologists call "self help" leaves society degenerating back to warlordism and gang fighting. Precisely what we formed a more perfect union to avoid.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Cajsa Lilliehook10:55 AM

    "Rape, of course, is an indisputably heinous act; because it forces a woman to engage in something she does not want to do," And yet these same christianists want to force women to bear children they do not want.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Franc Kuffman10:55 AM

    gocartt,

    What do you think should be the punishment for a baker who refuses to make an S&M cake for a bondage group?

    Jail? Fines?

    ReplyDelete
  69. He's not only smarter than you, he's smarter than ALL of us! We're DOOMED!!!

    ReplyDelete
  70. LittlePig10:56 AM

    Didn't take long for him to devolve to form, did it?

    ReplyDelete
  71. Should governments, or new agencies, or pundits for that matter, really be positioning themselves over people and telling them that if they do not submit to what is demanded of them — and engage willingly — then they will be forced to take it, and like it?

    ReplyDelete
  72. JennOfArk10:57 AM

    So predictable, so obvious. But he's the smart one, dontchaknow.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Cato the Censor10:57 AM

    The Anchoress:
    Baking cake = Physical violation
    And also: tough noogies on those who see a logical discrepancy in this.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Franc Kuffman10:58 AM

    Please cite a precedent where an RFRA law was used to facilitate the types of discrimination you're speaking of, Aimai.

    ReplyDelete
  75. also, noogies=rape

    ReplyDelete
  76. Franc Kuffman11:00 AM

    I'm aware of all internet traditions but I know not of which you speak.

    Would you please explain, Doxxer Jen?

    ReplyDelete
  77. gocart mozart11:01 AM

    He should be required to give you a foot massage.


    More seriously, he could say "I don't make S&M cakes" or alternatively if he is in the business of making S&M cakes he could say "Which type of cake would you like?"


    p.s. What's an S&M cake and which type is your favorite?

    ReplyDelete
  78. JennOfArk11:01 AM

    Sure you don't, Donalde. And we aren't going to get into your doxxing fantasy again, since it was completely debunked years ago.


    I'm not your puppet, Donalde.

    ReplyDelete
  79. susanoftexas11:04 AM

    Hey, what about me? People hardly ever attack me (well, twice). It's not fair. My right to fight back is being oppressed. It's against my religion to be ignored.
    The Church Of The Holy Hissy Fit's lawyer will be in touch with the internet, mark my words.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Ellis_Weiner11:04 AM

    1. Heh heh. You said "chrism." Which is totally, like, what--Christian jism?
    2. The Anchoress has long ago attained her Peter-Principle-es

    ReplyDelete
  81. gocart mozart11:04 AM

    Why do you think Muslim bakers should have the right to refuse to bake cakes for Jews?

    ReplyDelete
  82. Franc Kuffman11:05 AM

    Oh my. Gearing up for the election already, Jen? Playing the anti-woman card here in the exhibition season?

    ReplyDelete
  83. susanoftexas11:06 AM

    Since a bakery can be forced to bake 5,000 Frozen birthday cakes a S&M cake should be a relief.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Nope, Indiana's covers private businesses as well. That's why the comparisons to the federal RFRA fall apart.

    ReplyDelete
  85. susanoftexas11:12 AM

    She's only going by what she's been told; eating her cooking results in a violent physical reaction.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Franc Kuffman11:12 AM

    I'll go the comedic route that you always resort to if you want, gocart, but I was asking you a serious question. Pick any scenario of a private baker, florist or photographer that you're concerned suddenly being relieved of the undue burden of going against their beliefs for which you want to make them do. What should be their punishment for refusing that service?

    I wouldn't have asked you if I didn't believe you'd already thought about it.

    ReplyDelete
  87. susanoftexas11:13 AM

    But cat-calls=respect and admiration.

    ReplyDelete
  88. HEY BABY NICE COMMENT

    ReplyDelete
  89. dstatton11:21 AM

    If only she would become an actual anchoress.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Oh, and Acxiom has also urged a veto of the Arkansas bill. Anyone who thinks liberals and Acxiom are BFFs has really, really misunderstood that Vienna Teng song.

    ReplyDelete
  91. susanoftexas11:22 AM

    Savoir faire is everywhere!

    ReplyDelete
  92. Well, if it were true, we would be doomed. Because then Idiocracy would be hopelessly utopian.

    ReplyDelete
  93. dstatton11:24 AM

    They sound like the people fighting the Civil Rights Act back in 1964, don't they? Coerced to bake a cake for a black couple! Or worse, an interracial couple! The horror!! That was a deeply held belief, too.

    ReplyDelete
  94. susanoftexas11:24 AM

    An anchor-ess will do. She can take a long walk on a short pier.

    ReplyDelete
  95. gocart mozart11:25 AM

    Look up the CRA. Businesses that refuse service to Gays should be treated the same as businesses that refuse service to Blacks, Jews, women or the Irish. This is already the law in a dozen or so states. It's not a difficult concept. It's a civil penalty, people don't go to jail for violating the CRA despite you and your ilks fevered persecution fantasies. Assuming you are against the reinstatement of Jim Crow, what do you think should be the penalty for businesses who refuse to serve black people? What if they claim that their religion requires them to not engage in racial mixing?

    ReplyDelete
  96. Fine, susanoftexas, you're a liberal poopyhead. Happy?

    ReplyDelete
  97. IZiRC the two boxes argument is that there are lawful/nonsinful types of sec acts and unlawful/sinful sex acts. A lot has to do sith the status of the prople or the rdlationship eith god. So consensual sex is bad if it is pre or extra marital or gay because the persons are not in the right relationship. But marital rape makes no sense in this model because the persons are in the right relationship (lawful) for having sex, sex is the prerogative of the husband, and and consent is not a relevant category. Also you ought not to refuse consent in a lawful relationship and you ought not to give consent in an unlawful one since that mskes you a sinner who should be or will be punished. Rape of women who are defined as "bad" or already wrongfully sexually active is recognized to be bad, in a way, but essentially just punishment or normal consequences for her ptevious bad actions. This just world theiry of divine retribution just popped up in colorado where the horrifying but not unprecedented ripping of a ferus from its mothers womb by a crazed baby kidnapper was attributed by the local christian nutcase/legislator as gods obvious rebuke for abortion.

    ReplyDelete
  98. tigrismus11:26 AM

    May we please be allowed to not participate in these?

    Of course! Nobody's FORCING you to bake cakes for anyone. You chose to open a business, however, and not as a religious act but as a secular one, and there are laws about these things. You must pay taxes on your profits, your products and premises must meet certain non-Bible related standards, and you are not allowed to discriminate. You may opt out of secular business law by not running a secular business, or you may opt out and take the legal consequences. You could view the fines as a tithe, maybe, paid to glorify God.

    ReplyDelete
  99. susanoftexas11:26 AM

    But that's different because deeply held principle taught by preachers, schools, society and local government fifty years ago are absolutely nothing like deeply held principle taught by preachers, schools, society and local government today.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Its a beautiful cake made with ipecac.

    ReplyDelete
  101. I Hope no one shoves anything down it.What kind of liberal are you?

    ReplyDelete
  102. LittlePig11:28 AM

    Oy gevalt!

    ReplyDelete
  103. JennOfArk11:28 AM

    I don't know why exactly Donalde/Dennis/Pennis has always had such a hard-on for me. Maybe he's secretly attracted to my avatar.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Wait, you have a blog?

    ReplyDelete
  105. Helmut Monotreme11:28 AM

    I would also settle for "tying herself to a long rope or chain and jumping into a deep body of water".

    ReplyDelete
  106. JennOfArk11:29 AM

    With chocolate Ex-Lax frosting.

    ReplyDelete
  107. susanoftexas11:29 AM

    Jinx!

    ReplyDelete
  108. LittlePig11:31 AM

    I keep waiting for the polygamists to all of a sudden start saying "Hey, wait a minute..."

    ReplyDelete
  109. susanoftexas11:31 AM

    Remember that women agree to have sex with their husbands when they marry so they must give in. Just like bakers agree to make cakes for their community so they must bake cakes when ordered.
    Wait a second.

    ReplyDelete
  110. susanoftexas11:32 AM

    I feel so validated now.

    ReplyDelete
  111. gocart mozart11:33 AM

    The "I shouldn't have to serve black customers in my store because of my deeply held religious beliefs which are
    guaranteed by the first amendment." argument was tried and dismissed by a U.S. Appellate Court back in '68 (don't remember the case name) This of course was before Hobby Lobby though.

    ReplyDelete
  112. susanoftexas11:34 AM

    The shame of man-insect hybrid sexual longing is too much for him to bear and he must project his self-disgust on others.

    ReplyDelete
  113. susanoftexas11:35 AM

    Polygamy is the real Biblical marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  114. JennOfArk11:36 AM

    OT squeeeeeeeee!!!! Squirrel nest box cam.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Helmut Monotreme11:36 AM

    Their understanding of consent comes straight from Thucydides "Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    ReplyDelete
  116. gocart mozart11:37 AM

    But should a Sasquatch bakery be forced to bake a cake for an Israeli? That is the most important question.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Maybe he's secretly attracted to my avatar.Hey, who isn't?

    ReplyDelete
  118. LittlePig11:40 AM

    That's why I laugh my hammy ass off whenever I hear women of all people say they want traditional Biblical marriage. I'm like 'no you don't'. You want to be property?

    And they think the girls going to join ISIS are nuts.

    ReplyDelete
  119. LittlePig11:42 AM

    I thought it was more of a 'receipt' than a 'bond'...

    ReplyDelete
  120. The case was NEWMAN v. PIGGIE PARK ENTERPRISES (No, that's not an April Fool's Day joke), and it actually made it to the Supreme Court, where it was smacked down 8-0. This of course was before Hobby Lobby and the erosion of the Civil Rights Act, though.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Thank you. Ive never read thucydides. Now i feel like i should.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Jmaharry11:56 AM

    "Dusting, rape and gay cakes." Great line. Thank you, Alicublog.

    ReplyDelete
  123. I can help with the paperwork for that. AND with the paperwork for those who want NEA grants so they can produce art that conservatives don't like.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Helmut Monotreme11:59 AM

    Well, let me know if he's any good, I just googled a half remembered quote.

    ReplyDelete
  125. To prevent that on-coming driver from ramming your steering wheel down your throat? Oh, the indignity of it all!

    ReplyDelete
  126. Jmaharry12:05 PM

    Seat belts aren't rape, just bondage.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Yeah, yeah--they're cute as the dickens. Until you have 20 of them on the front lawn, climbing up the side of the house, peering in the windows, and chewing everything in sight. That's when you come to understand that they're really just rats with better wardrobes.

    ReplyDelete
  128. LittlePig12:09 PM

    "Ya know, Nietzsche once said..."

    ReplyDelete
  129. Four Chins For Sister Francis12:09 PM

    Roy,

    I am 100% behind you in your right to exercise discrimination by picking and choosing who is allowed to voice their opinions here on your blog despite there being no written rules for posting.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Helmut Monotreme12:12 PM

    My favorite Nietzsche quote: "I'll take a roast beef on rye, extra onions, mustard no pickle, to go."

    ReplyDelete
  131. glennisw12:14 PM

    Zip! I was reading Schopenhauer last night.
    Zip! And I think that Schopenhauer was right.

    ReplyDelete
  132. tigrismus12:16 PM

    It's like what Abraham Lincoln said about Mark Twain, "I'm Thomas Jefferson! And so's my wife!"

    ReplyDelete
  133. Yo, guys.

    Been trying to follow the news with all the "fun" going on, but it's been kind of difficult, and quite frankly low priority - I hate to sound like a whiner, but we've finally made the move up to New York, only things didn't work out quite as we hoped (to fucking massively understate) and we're living out of our cars at the moment, along with two dogs and three cats. Gruesome details available here, under the "Updates" tab.

    ReplyDelete
  134. LittlePig12:24 PM

    And Asa crawfishes

    "These are not ordinary times". Gosh Governor, really? It's not like you guys made it this way or anything...

    ReplyDelete
  135. Choc-o-mutt, (NO VANILLA) with, OF COURSE, licorice whips as decoration.

    ReplyDelete
  136. He said he was also considering using an executive order that would make “Arkansas a place of tolerance.”


    AIEEEE Dictatorship!

    ReplyDelete
  137. the mother often lying on her back for up to an hour to give access to her nipples

    oooharrr, what a giveaway!

    ReplyDelete
  138. Hannity and D'Sousaphone

    ReplyDelete
  139. Or the opposite: a woman being assaulted and beaten is "participating" in the assault. Its beyond stupid and hypocritical.

    ReplyDelete
  140. ... or the "third concubine"? Sure.

    ReplyDelete
  141. BG, puppet making crank calls12:47 PM

    But, that being the case, what shall we make of the fact that, for the most part, the very same entities who (disputed “rape culture” claims aside) quite rightly insist that a woman should never, ever be forced to engage in acts against her will, have pivoted toward Indiana to demand that “other” people be forced to engage in acts against their wills?



    Okay, now that is some serious-ass stupid.


    Because baking a cake and selling it is JUST LIKE being raped!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  142. glennisw12:50 PM

    I was wondering what kind of Muslim cake might be nice at a gay wedding. Ten seconds on google I came up with this:

    Muslim wedding cakes
    Beautiful!

    ReplyDelete
  143. Helmut Monotreme12:52 PM

    So, what I originally thought of was:"The powerful do what they please the powerless do what they must", I thought to myself, damn, that's some good aphorisming ... ... ...maybe too good for me to have thought up all by my lonesome ... typitty typpitty ...crap! some Greek jerk got there 2400 years ago. Fine, here's your quote Mr smartypants Thucydides. And I finally understand why frustrated aphorists burned the library of Alexandria.

    ReplyDelete
  144. I get a "page not found" response.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Jay B.12:56 PM

    Bake me a cake, photograph my wedding, pay for my abortion and my contraception.


    OR, bake my contraception, photograph my abortion and pay for my cake. We're flexible.

    ReplyDelete
  146. gocart mozart12:58 PM

    What if your religion is Loopnerism and noogies are a deeply held religious belief?


    http://www.hulu.com/watch/4112

    ReplyDelete
  147. That'll take the steam aout of your pathos.

    Try this:
    http://www.youcaring.com/other/it-s-a-leaning-time/299835

    ReplyDelete
  148. redoubtagain12:59 PM

    One Comment, One Scotch, and One Beer

    ReplyDelete
  149. Can I bake your wedding and abort your cake?

    ReplyDelete
  150. Dead_Andy_Breitbart1:04 PM

    Meanwhile, the Free Market® is working as intended:

    http://www.yelp.com/biz/memories-pizza-walkerton

    ReplyDelete
  151. LittlePig1:11 PM

    Asa's finding out it is a whole lot tougher to be the only grown-up in the room. And there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    I look forward to Brother Rapert's bill to put the 10 Commandents monument on the state Capitol grounds. My son is already drafting our Cthulhu monument when equal time comes around.

    ReplyDelete
  152. Gromet1:14 PM

    Remember your Muad'Dib, Helmut.

    ReplyDelete
  153. "It's all fun and games until someone finds the hammer."

    ReplyDelete
  154. petesh1:23 PM

    Best use of Yelp yet.

    ReplyDelete
  155. For me, it's always been a coin flip between Anchoress Aweigh! and Debbie SchlusselPile for best hatin' on the intertubes.


    I think a cage match on Fox with blow by blow commentary by Sean Hannity and colour commentary from Sara Palin would garner huge ratings.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Four Chin Francis1:49 PM

    Not what he said, tigris. He asked not to have to participate in the event. An event that was just recently became legal, in most cases after those businesses were formed.

    And businesses discriminate, just like Roy discriminates who is allowed to post here based on his whims. They're just clever about it.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Jay B.2:03 PM

    So long as you take pictures.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Marion in Savannah2:03 PM

    I'd watch that, but I've programmed my teebee to explode if it's ever tuned to Faux Noise...

    ReplyDelete
  159. Longitudinally Enabled2:09 PM

    Impossible. Maypole dancing is done clockwise.

    ReplyDelete
  160. tigrismus2:22 PM

    Hannity And D'Souza: Why Are Gays Mad At Indiana But Silent On Sharia Law?

    Some state is trying to pass Sharia? Zounds!

    ReplyDelete
  161. But in view of the real goal -- which is to trim back our traditional understanding of civil rights -- it's actually an advance.No, I'm not going to shoot myself in the head, no matter what you say. But yes, the polling is depressing: "Well, sure, business owners should have the right to their religious beliefs." Sounds so simple and virtuous, doesn't it? It's been long enough for people to have forgotten their Piggie Parks and their miscegenation hysterias. Then again, the polling on military action against Iran, another right-wing direct cut-and-paste job, has already demonstrated that the electorate would need extensive memory training just to outperform a goddamned turnip.

    ReplyDelete
  162. M. Krebs2:55 PM

    Dinner!

    ReplyDelete
  163. ADHDJ3:00 PM

    The Velvet Cake Underground

    ReplyDelete
  164. John Wesley Hardin3:04 PM

    She is pierless.

    ReplyDelete
  165. Why are two of the dumbest fucks in a sect of dumb fucks on one hand decrying Sharia Law, or law based on religious beliefs, and on the other hand whining because they can't enjoy laws based on religious beliefs?


    Because they're two of the dumbest fucks in a sect that celebrates dumbfuckery, of course! (This was not a trick question, unless you ask a dumb fuck and then they're stumped.)

    ReplyDelete
  166. Actually I think that use of Yelp is really inadvisable. The point would be to show people the error or illogic of their ways, not confirm them in their hysterical fantasy that gay=obscene and cruel.


    The most I think people should post is "I'm sorry that you feel that way. Since I won't feel welcome in your restaurant, I will not be stopping by or ordering from you."

    ReplyDelete
  167. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person3:10 PM

    Ahem, "photos" of "Earth", taken "from space"....

    ReplyDelete
  168. merl13:16 PM

    My grandmother refused to own a TV because she thought it invited Satan into her home. Why don't these assholes do the same? When they came to visit, Paw Paw would plant himself in front of the TV and ask when Wresting was on. He loved that shit.

    ReplyDelete
  169. LookWhosInTheFreezer3:19 PM

    She's quite vulnerable to Mission Drift.

    ReplyDelete
  170. LookWhosInTheFreezer3:21 PM

    May we please be allowed to not participate in these?

    Absolutely!!

    (hands her a "Sorry We're Closed" sign.)

    That was easy.

    ReplyDelete
  171. billcinsd3:28 PM

    I'm sorry, it's One Scotch, One Comment, One Beer

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwO6yfxv0Go

    according to Rudy Toombs who wrote the song

    ReplyDelete
  172. billcinsd3:30 PM

    I feel your pain. But you have the whole live in Texas thing, which, depending upon the area, could be considered a constant attack

    ReplyDelete
  173. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person3:41 PM

    Denestificated

    Since a bakery can be forced to bake 5,000 Frozen birthday cakes a S&M cake should be a relief.

    Because.

    Bakeries can be forced to make some very strange cakes indeed. (A lot of these were either made by pros, or gifted amateurs. Others, obviously not.) The number of shitcakes is disturbing...

    ReplyDelete
  174. LookWhosInTheFreezer3:53 PM

    This would also prevent Mission Drift.

    ReplyDelete
  175. Gromet3:58 PM

    If you bake the cake before you are 18, it's statutory bake.

    ReplyDelete
  176. LookWhosInTheFreezer4:01 PM

    And look how deliciously dressed that avatar is. Parading around with her cookie on full display is just ASKING for it!

    ReplyDelete
  177. susanoftexas4:11 PM

    I live in Texas' gay Mecca, surrounded by minorities and immigrants. People who come here for the hatred are in for a shock.
    Incidentally I think I saw Will Wilkinson drive by Trader Joe's when he lived here, which I think was for about 10 minutes. I guess he found out that cheap Texas housing would set him back about $900,000 if he wanted to live next to the cool kids. (We can only afford to live in the area because we've been here since land was cheap and houses were crappy.)

    ReplyDelete
  178. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person4:20 PM

    What kind of an IDIOT sabotages their business's future by declaring they won't serve a certain type of person/customer???

    Wild guess: a Christianist bigot who's jonesing for that sweet feeling of persecution that comes with being run out of business by the normal folk heathens they're forced to share the town with.

    ReplyDelete
  179. J Neo Marvin4:26 PM

    Since the first couple reviews are from wingnuts congratulating them for their principled stance, I have to agree with you there.

    ReplyDelete
  180. LittlePig4:28 PM

    Oh you. (bravo x 3)

    ReplyDelete
  181. Jay B.4:33 PM

    We have to serve the IRISH?

    ReplyDelete
  182. Civil Rights are not the same thing as Religious rites.
    There is no logical, reasonable reason person A's religious beliefs should trump person B's civil rights.
    But then religion isn't about logic or reason is it? It's based in magical thinking and superstition: "belief" without any evidence or proof.

    ReplyDelete
  183. tigrismus4:36 PM

    Seriously. If anyone were trying to get Sharia law enacted here, ie if it were a looming threat like actually already passed legislation is, gays would be one of the first groups to say something about it, and if shits like those two were honest they'd say little other than "say what you will about Muslims, they have the right idea about the homos/women/theocracy/you name it."

    ReplyDelete
  184. petesh4:41 PM

    1. Hey, it's Yelp. I never trust Yelp reviews.
    2. These assholes upped the ante, just when the furore was dying down, so fvck 'em.

    ReplyDelete
  185. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person4:47 PM

    Which is totally, like, what--Christian jism?


    Close! It's the lube, actually...

    ReplyDelete
  186. LittlePig4:54 PM

    I think of it as a method of civil control (worked like a champ for the Romans) more than anything else.

    But then the Talmud is quite specifically a civil control framework. The group was (obstensibly) very insular (although the accomodation of tweleve tribes uniting as a single entity is a handwave. What? Why Joseph had 12 sons!...). Then you get Christianity, becoming so non-isular that hey! Easter bunnies, Yule logs, St. Bridget, Tannenbaums, colored freakin' eggs...all kosher. (sorry) "you got local legends? no problemo! They were saint's the whole time (who knew?). Grows like Topsy.

    As for modern conservatism: "Beware those as innocent as doves, for inwardly they are ravening wolves".

    I read that in a book. Now, I am not a Christian, even by Unitarian standards (come on people! Original sin is a metaphor for the emergence of the human ego, an elegant one, in that childbirth is difficult because our heads are so freakin large). So viciously NOT as a young person. So I read the KJV. I was freaking nine, and the letters in red seemed pretty freaking obvious to me, not on the specifics but on how people act

    When folks ask me how an old heathen knows the verses, I like to say 'Jesus is my rabbi'. Which corresponds perfectly to the most succinct rendering of the synoptic Gospels I have ever heard, as communicated by my dad: "Straighen Up and Act Like Somebody".

    That Hillel would say, the rest is commentary.

    ReplyDelete
  187. Its not a question of "fuck 'em" its a question of what message is conveyed to the world. Absolutely I think it is an appropriate use of Yelp to let other, future, customers know of the owner's policy w/r/t anything--I use Yelp all the time to determine whether the company in question is reliable, or honest, or skilled. But this kind of swarming behavior plays right into right wing/religious hysteria about victimization and specifically about how evil and powerful "the gays" are. So although its all good fun for the people writing the reviews it makes it harder and less likely that any self described "Christian" reading the reviews will find anything wrong with the Pizza store's original decision. In fact the original bigoted act is retroactively made necessary, in their imagination, by the current "martyring" of the Pizza store owners.

    ReplyDelete
  188. Chris Anderson5:32 PM

    Thanks for reminding me of "Nietzsche Family Circus" ... http://www.nietzschefamilycircus.com/


    There's gotta be someone here that hasn't yet seen it

    ReplyDelete
  189. synykyl5:36 PM

    There is one thing about the Indiana law that is not clear to me: Do I need proof that someone is gay before I can discriminate against them, or is suspicion of gayness sufficient?

    Okay, I lied. There is more than one thing about the law that is not clear to me. However, contrary to Governor Pence's hilarious protestations, the intent of the law is not one of them. The world sees you for what you are, Indiana state government.

    ReplyDelete
  190. petesh5:36 PM

    It's Chinatown the Interwebtubes, Jake.


    In general, I deplore piling on (and occasionally complain when it's done by people I respect) but it happens, and I can't think of a better example. Sometimes the godly need to be reminded that the ungodly despise them as much as vice versa. Certainly I wish neither were true (gee, summa my besties be Xtians), but here we are.

    ReplyDelete
  191. LittlePig5:37 PM

    woah. John Paul Hammerschmidt has passed away. A nice guy that gave us the most awesome tour of the White House ever. Yeah, the subway too.

    The first congresscritter I ever met in real life (that being 11-ish). Hell of a nice guy.

    ReplyDelete
  192. They're horrible at discerning psychological boundaries and when they do, at respecting and operating within them. Their religion says that there's no need to obey them because Exposing Sins and Saving Souls are much too important as objectives and reasons to concede anyone inviolable dignity.


    This makes for the really intrusive, psychologically unsafe, and degrading life in many cultural Christian families.

    ReplyDelete
  193. I had trouble last time I had to pass sharia. I hadda drink LOTS of water and take these BIG PILLS...

    ReplyDelete
  194. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how baking a FUCKING CAKE is somehow justifying a point of view.

    Like, if I asked someone to bake a 9/11 cake, are they then objectively pro-terrorism?

    ReplyDelete
  195. They're laws based on the wrong set of mythology.

    Or, if you want, it's a violation of their BRAND LOYALTY.

    (Brain not working right lately, which is I assume why I'm now imagining a loyalty card for wingnuts, like the cards you get from stores. "Say 9 bigoted things and the 10th's FREE!")

    ReplyDelete
  196. Marion in Savannah6:18 PM

    Lissen... When Adam and Steve or Jean and Jane come in together to order a cake you just KNOW what's going on. Throw them out onto the sidewalk and turn the hose on them as soon as they walk in.



    (The fact that one of those two people brought in a friend or relative to order a cake because their betrothed was being a Real Genuwine Amurken Hero by risking his or her ass in some godforsaken sand pit that your Republican Heroes decided to invade is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IRRELEVANT.)


    Christ, I hate these people...

    ReplyDelete