Previously known mainly to people who cover anti-gay gasbags for a living ("Says Glee corrupts youth: 'We should be as concerned about what the FOX TV show Glee has done to corrupt a young generation as we are about anything the Court has done'"), Anderson recently received flattering coverage in the Washington Post (strange are the ways of the liberal media! I thought they were all in the tank for Gay ObamaHitler) as "a fresh voice on same-sex marriage," "fresh-faced" and "millennial," who tours the country lecturing on "anthropological truths that men and women are distinct and complementary," illustrating his points with polygamy scare-stories from The New York Post.
This was especially hilarious to me because I last paid attention to Anderson in 2007 when, as an assistant editor at First Things, he was already on the moral-panic beat, complaining that Princeton freshmen had to watch a sexual assault prevention program that had gross stuff in it like "sexual skits, innuendo, 'coming-out' scenes, gay kisses, and other nonsense that some students don’t want to be forced to sit through." If only they'd make sexual assault prevention programs that even rightwing plants can enjoy!
Along with the sex angle, Anderson was (even then!) working the victim-status angle. From my post:
Anderson spends the rest of the article complaining that liberals make jokes about him and his buddies. Normal people learn to shrug this kind of thing off, but for wingers snide comments are hate-speech or bad-touch or something. "Professor [Lee] Silver’s attack wasn’t really aimed at Professor [Robert George]; it was aimed at the students," Anderson claims, because a laff on a prominent conservative buffoon sends students "a message about which points of view are acceptable and which are unacceptable.Well, little Ryan has grown up, and advanced from vicarious sufferer over the martyrs of his movement to abused saint himself. After the Post story came out, his old high school first publicly acknowledged this accomplishment, then ham-handedly rebuffed him. To you and me, this would be tsk-worthy, but to Anderson's brethren it is the iron boot of repression.
"The shunning of Ryan T. Anderson: When support for gay marriage gets ugly," thunders Damon Linker at The Week. Rod Dreher needs two posts to wring his hands over it: "Intellectually bankrupt, morally corrupt," sputters Dreher. "Illiberal elitist liberalism at its ugliest. These people have the power, and will have the power." (He's talking about high school administrators, remember.) At The Federalist, credentialed wingnut Joseph Bottum plays the old trick of telling us he's cool with gay marriage, more or less, but since the Facebook posts of Anderson's high school he's outraged by Chappaquiddick: "Our lives and our discourse are narrowed to only a trickle of intellectual light if we encounter someone like the intelligent and serious Ryan T. Anderson—and simply close our eyes in holy dread." Etc.
I'm not sure what the long term strategy is here: Maybe they just want to get this idea spread around enough that young conservatives for whom there is no room on the wingnut-welfare gravy train can go out on the street with a tin cup and a cardboard sign that says PLEASE HELP, I AM A NO HOMOS MARTYR and wait for donations. Or maybe they think people will go back to persecuting homosexuals because they feel sorry for conservatives.
By "plants" did you mean "under-cover operative" or "vegetative intelligence"? I mean, it works either way, but I like to know authorial intention.
ReplyDelete"Illiberal elitist liberalism at its ugliest. These people have the power, and will have the power."
ReplyDeleteApparently, liberalism valuing free speech means that liberals must endorse free speech they do not support. Because conservatism is all childish projection of their own insecurities (even back in the Old South, a common argument against emancipation was the fear that slaves would simply turn around and enslave whites as brutal domination was the only social relation available to the conservative mind) conservatives believe that liberalism is only a cover for the true desire to have a different, also repressive conservatism that simply excludes white men. Again, because patriarchal domination is the only social relation available to their childlike conception of the world.
This is an example of a fascinating ontological two step often undertaken by the lesser lights of conservatism. One in which conservative imaginings of liberalisms tenants are taken as empirical descriptions liberals are bound to respect.
Conservative: Liberals all believe X
Liberal: That is not true, we do not all believe X
Conservative: Well know you are changing your story, hypocrite!
This results because the conservative in question is incapable of imagining a mode of being that is not premised on totalizing moral superiority. Why live if you cannot shove it in other people's faces? This the liberal must believe as the conservative believes, there are not other kinds of thinking in the world outside the conservative mind. That's why the ACA doesn't work and there were WMDs in Iraq - because if it were otherwise, then force and domination would not be the only available ways to live. That's why teaching students not to sexually assault one another is a monstrous imposition - because the conservative cannot imagine that anyone else's experience falls outside of his own projections, "they must only be showing this to rub it in my face because that's the only reason I would acknowledge someone's sexuality or vulnerability."
"a fresh voice on same-sex marriage,"
ReplyDelete"a fresh voice on miscegenation,"
"a fresh voice on corporal punishment,"
"a fresh voice on stop and frisk,"
"a fresh voice on warrant-less search and seizure"
Or maybe they think people will go back to persecuting homosexuals because they feel sorry for conservatives.
ReplyDeleteConsidering conservatives are about as popular with typical Americans as finding maggots in your shorts, that's going to be quite a wait.
"I'm not sure what the long term strategy is here"
ReplyDeleteIs there ever one?
My guess is that the Repubs - assuming they still value having a religious base - will eventually land on a new Southern strategy. Call it maybe a Southern Baptist strategy or something. I can imagine in a few generations' time, a famous quote from a GOP strategist will emerge, something along the following lines:
"You start out in 1994, by saying faggot, faggot, faggot. By 2004, you can’t say faggot, that hurts you, back-fires. So you say stuff like marriage amendment, states rights, judicial activism, and all that stuff and you’re getting so abstract. Now in 2015, you’re talking about business freedom, wedding cakes and such. We want to cut this is much more abstract than even the marriage amendment thing and a hell of a lot more abstract than faggot, faggot."
Cabbages dressed up and passed off as humans.
ReplyDelete"A fresh voice on gas chambers and ovens"
ReplyDeleteMonetizing victimhood is always the end goal, of course, but if the cash flow is thin -- and it's the tiniest trickle, if you take a look at the books of NOM and similar organizations — they'll settle for wallowing in the sweet, sweet pleasures of being a horribly oppressed supermajority. They know which way the court's going to swing in June and are just getting comfy in their new status of the tyrannized pious. Say, Hobby Lobby was supposed to fix all this, and yet these bitchy queens and their enablers won't stop making fun of me! Isn't that unconstitutional?
ReplyDelete"a fresh voice on blowing up foreigners for corporate profits"
ReplyDelete"a fresh voice on cutting entitlement spending"
"a fresh voice on trade corporate government deals"
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RB2EBocHk_I/TUWvW52BcRI/AAAAAAAACjk/QujRc-g74vI/s1600/The%2BWashington%2BPost%2Blogo%2Bpaint%2B2.jpeg
~
The He Man Hater's Club for Homophobes--I'm not just the Opressor, I'm a Victim too!
ReplyDeleteSmiling man bends towards the camera and shows his stigmata.
/end advertisement.
"I just don't understand how we've narrowed our political discourse so much that it's no longer possible to even discuss the self-evident idea of separate facilities for [name of group you don't like]."
ReplyDelete+1 "bible wrapped in cellophane"
ReplyDelete"'Illiberal elitist liberalism at its ugliest. These people have the
ReplyDeletepower, and will have the power.' (He's talking about high school
administrators, remember."
We all have our faves, but mine is "...and will have the power." Rod loves, not only the present-tense experience of being oppressed, but the future-tense prediction/anticipation of the coming oppression. Roy, have your intern go back and tabulate all of Rod's predictions that have or have not come true. We'll wait here.
. . . a horribly oppressed supermajority.
ReplyDeleteFor a Christian nation made up of Christians who all believe in Christianity as our founding documents, it's amazing that a group representing a tiny minority should be able to put all these Christians into re-education camps the way they do.
I would like to gently cultivate this comment, then share it with some close friends.
ReplyDeleteThat tends to tie into their grotesque misunderstanding of history, I think. How many times have we heard them Godwin Obama or whoever by talking about how Hitler used his charisma to get one over on the sheeple, ignoring the fact that violent nationalism and anti-Semitism were enabled by the fact that they were, you know, broadly popular among regular Germans?
ReplyDeleteIf only they'd make sexual assault prevention programs that even rightwing plants can enjoy!
ReplyDeleteHmmm, wingnuts as plants? What, some species of wort?
...spleenwort would do nicely
ReplyDeleteTonight on Life Unearthed, the BlatherWort.
ReplyDeleteThe BlatherWort is typically found growing in the Rightwing Fever Swamps. It strains at gnats while swallowing camels, and emits a pungent stench similar to unwashed laundry. When disturbed, it bellows loudly before settling back into the mire.
Cabbages are useful, though!
ReplyDelete~
Illiberal elitist liberalism at its ugliest. These people have the power, and will have the power.
ReplyDeleteSo, liberals are like Prince Namor the Submariner before Johnny Storm burned off his beard: all-powerful, but completely ignorant of that fact and forced to live as a stewbum. That must be the real reason why libs don't succeed.
young conservatives for whom there is no room on the wingnut-welfare gravy train
ReplyDeleteAw, c'mon ya cheapskates, at least grubstake some of these guys to a strip-mall deli or pizza joint, and give 'em a running start...
Without their persecution, they are nothing. They stroke their imaginary wounds, and hum under their breath, out of tune "you give me reason to live, you give me reason to live"...
ReplyDeleteOr that violent Nationalism and anti-Semitism have been staples of the American right since forever.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Bobby "Bob" Jindal has an op-ed up at the NYT sputtering about how Indiana and Arkansas were badly mistreated by corporate pressure to ease up on the gay bigotry, and the need for "populist social conservatives to ally with the business community on economic matters and corporate titans to side with social conservatives on cultural matters." It's always a treat to see a representative of the Big Business Party completely misunderstand the goal of Big Business.
ReplyDeleteBut my favourte idiotic bit, in a piece chock-full of them, was this: " The same people who think that profit making is vulgar believe that religiosity is folly."
I think he's a bit harsh on the religion-for-profit folks with that one, but I'm not the guy flapping my lips urging the GOP to "stop being the party of stupid" and then purposely stepping on a row of rakes in an effort to be Head Stupid.
What greater humiliation is there than, well into one's thirties, to be shunned by the principal of one's high school? Jesus weeps.
ReplyDeleteSaint Ron's Wort.
ReplyDelete"Wanna see my stigmata?"
ReplyDeleteStill the best* pick-up line at church socials as well as pretty much anywhere in the Bible belt. And it's gender-neutral!
*it's not science - it's true!
That makes a lot of sense to me. On the conservative talk radio I hear a lot of talk about us liberals, and it's as though they can't see us at all. It's as though they're looking at a funhouse mirror and seeing a twisted reflection of themselves and nothing more.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what you're saying about the inability of many conservatives to view social interaction as anything but brutal social dominance (or the lack of it) explains a lot. It goes a long way toward explaining the opposition to any nuclear arms deal with Iran. A deal made by way of peaceful negotiation must be unimaginable to such people.
Exactly right on Iran. Such a deal could never really be a "deal" since diplomacy to them is never about mutually beneficial gain through compromise, but putting one over on the other guy. Any deal is ipso facto the US getting played by Iran, or Iran getting played by the US. Any result that is not "Iran is Christianized and brought into the US sphere of capitalist production" is capitulation.
ReplyDeleteNot a site I read much, as a rule, but...
ReplyDeleteOn
the “Shunning” of Marriage Equality Opponent Ryan T. Anderson: A Reply
to Damon Linker
So let me be the first to agree with Linker on the subject of liberal
discourse. But let me also add a caveat. Free and open public speech
means being held accountable for the things you say. Ryan T. Anderson is
an advocate of uncivil policy, and has enjoyed the perks of that advocacy. That he receives some uncivil speech in reply is not necessarily a sign that liberalism is broken. It may be an indication that liberalism is alive.
At least they were wanted by children.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.toysrus.com/product/prodpop.jsp?LargeImageURL=/graphics/product_images/pTRU1-19151744enh-z6.jpg&displayTab=enh&productId=42358976&totCount=0
Since social; media was involved, maybe Jesus LOL'd...
ReplyDeleteOnce I was a man like you, then some people I kind of knew from my hometown muted me on Twitter.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't cure depression, but causes it...
ReplyDeleteeven back in the Old South, a common argument against emancipation was the fear that slaves would simply turn around and enslave whites as brutal domination was the only social relation available to the conservative mind
ReplyDeleteI read that book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnham's_Freehold
He's the only person around who can't wait for Purgatory.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
ReplyDeleteHe meant it, too. http://www.bradford-delong.com/2015/04/weekend-reading-robert-a-heinlein-letter-for-fm-busby-on-freedom-and-race-relations.html
ReplyDeleteIf only they'd make sexual assault prevention programs that even rightwing plants can enjoy!That's easy! Given the right's repeatedly-demonstrated inability to understand the idea of consent, just drop the word "prevention" and you're golden.
ReplyDelete"Professor [Lee] Silver’s attack wasn’t really aimed at Professor [Robert George]; it was aimed at the students," Anderson claims,Well, technically, it could be both.
because a laff on a prominent conservative buffoon sends students "a message about which points of view are acceptable and which are unacceptable."Well, more that if it's trivially easy to demonstrate an argument as morally and intellectually vacuous, it probably doesn't have an automatic right to respect just because its proponent is a sufficiently prominent reactionary stupid fuck.** (Sorry, Professor George; I'm sure you have many valuable, well-reasoned ideas, you self-important bigoted theocratic bag of pig shit.)
"The shunning of Ryan T. Anderson: When support for gay marriage gets ugly,"I must have missed all those states passing laws formally declaring him a second-class citizen.
"Our lives and our discourse are narrowed to only a trickle of intellectual light if we encounter someone like the intelligent and
serious Ryan T. AndersonSo ... some other Ryan T. Anderson?
and simply close our eyes in holy dread."Yeah, it would be much better if you shut your goddamned stupid mouths as well.
A young woman in our city notoriously stood on a street corner and held up a sign saying, "Will rap for weed." Compared to "Will whine about persecution for donations," she had wit and dignity.
ReplyDelete... or a bakery or florist store.
ReplyDelete"Who is this versus?" - It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
ReplyDelete"Father, if it be Thy will, take this cup away from me; yet not my will but Thine be done!"
ReplyDelete"Father, if it be Thy will, take this unbelievably-sweet speaking gig with all its perks away from me; yet not my will, but the will of contrarian Republican judges and angry mobs be done!"
Merely an extension of their domestic politics. Negotiation with Democrats consists of making demands and then repeating them every time the Ds make a counter-offer. Why would they deal differently with "towel-heads and camel-jockeys"?
ReplyDeleteOur lives and our discourse are narrowed to only a trickle of intellectual light if we encounter someone like the intelligent and serious Ryan T. Anderson—and simply close our eyes in holy dread
ReplyDeleteOh shut the fuck up. After years and years and years of anti-intellectual twaddle from the lot of them, and I mean every single fucking conservative "voice" who never once even lightly pushed back against their fight against objective reality, the last goddamn thing I need to hear is just how the intellectual discourse is being wounded by us mean liberals and our relentless assault on their 'intellectuals'' feelings.
It's also laughable that they are touting morons like Anderson and Ted Cruz as "smart ones" with formidable intellects. Outside of the hothouse of book learning and rote memory (a kind of intelligence and not at all bad!), they think on their feet about as well as a Bush on bath salts. They have no -- zero -- emotional intelligence and they aren't too good at the regular kind either. Which, of course, is what happens when one side of the political debate locks themselves into an intellectual corner and everyone sucks on each other's popsicles. They are all jabbering idiots.
Fuck that, I'd just send my zombies over for a "midnite znack"...
ReplyDeleteTerrific link. Thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteOh my god! The more you read about Heinlein, the more appalling he becomes. Libertarians tend to believe that gay rights infringe on their own rights to be against gays-what would they think about this?
ReplyDelete"In 1944, Heinlein met Lieutenant Virginia Gerstenfeld, and after the war tried to bring her into his house as part of a ménage à trois. Gerstenfeld accepted but her stay with the Heinlein’s was brief and stormy. This wasn’t the first love triangle in the Heinlein residence (they had earlier been in a consensual threesome with L. Ron Hubbard), but Leslyn found Virginia threatening so the marriage collapsed in 1947. Heinlein and Gerstenfeld wed the following year, a marriage that would also be open." http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118048/william-pattersons-robert-heinlein-biography-hagiography
Jesus, it's a whole loathesome buffet of wingnuttery - "I wasn't there so it's not my problem", "them nigras is naturally dumb", "ha ha no such thing as 'equality'", "taxes are theft"...
ReplyDeleteDon't forget that they smell and are messy. Jesus wept.
ReplyDeleteI must not have read that far; the nausea filter only takes so much abuse these days...
ReplyDeleteAnderson has achieved far more than most 33-year-olds
ReplyDeleteWhy, when Jesus was his age, he was totally crucified.
purposely stepping on a row of rakes in an effort to be Head Stupid
ReplyDelete"Now, I'm going to lay these rakes out here, to show you what a Serious Person I am by not stepping on them."
*WHACK*
*WHACK*
*WHACK*
polygamy scare-stories
ReplyDeleteSo are they for traditional Biblical marriages or not?
They were for Abraham before they were against him.
ReplyDeleteHey man, Jesus got better, but the pain of having that link removed from Anderson's high school website isn't going away after three days.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of the whining about the twitter blocker people were using to block trolls. The trolls complained that this violated their free speech.
ReplyDeleteReally, one of the great features of the internet, in addition to cat pictures and porn, is that it lets us experience bad arguments we left behind in middle school again.
From the "Reception" part of the Wikipedia piece, which is representative:
ReplyDelete"Kirkus Reviews stated that the "characters have souls of wood pulp", and that "(t)he satire on fall-out shelters, race and sex lacks inspiration."[1]"
Charles Stross has rhetorically asked whether "anyone (has) a kind word to say for (...) Farnham's Freehold", and then described it as the result of "a privileged white male from California, a notoriously exclusionary state, trying to understand American racism in the pre-Martin Luther King
era. And getting it wrong for facepalm values of wrong, so wrong he wasn't even on the right map ... but at least he wasn't ignoring it."[3]
Wingnut response:
"OUR VIEWS ARE BEING BRUTALLY REPRESSED!!!"
And "narrowed to a trickle" my ASS. The WaPo didn't take down the tongue bathing, a dinky high school website which probably accounted for 0% of reads merely removed a link to an article that continues to exist.
ReplyDeleteThere's a large block of conservatism that's defined by a lack of empathy. I'm not talking warm, fuzzy feelings, but an inability or lack of desire in understanding how one's actions would make another feel. The whole thought process seems to stop at "but she's not me."
ReplyDeleteIt is pretty self-defeating as a personality trait. How do you convince anyone of anything if you can't anticipate what arguments they'll find persuasive? Since convincing and consent are infeasible, force is all that's left.
Looks like Leslyn had more sense than Gerstenfeld.
ReplyDeleteAnd "narrowed to a trickle" my ASS.Uh, a bit too much information there, tigrismus.
ReplyDeletethey had earlier been in a consensual threesome with L. Ron Hubbard
ReplyDeleteThat sounds fun. I wonder who got to hold the e-meter.
When she ran in 08, she was getting beaten over the very real and very awful Iraq policy she helped vote into place. That was a substantive critique. She has been moderate to progressive since then and when they attack her -- and they will -- it will only serve to make her more popular, plus there's an entire alternative apparatus now set up, blogs, Twitter, comedy news shows, etc. that are helpful in blunting the particularly stupid narratives, something that neither clinton had back in the Lewinsky days (although Bob Somerby and Salon did yeoman work back then, it was as a result of the dick-dogging of the GOP that MoveOn even came into being and it wasn't until the dawn of the Bush years where it started to help). I mean people still like Mo Dowd, but a loud number of people also find her ridiculous and mock-worthy. That's an important difference.
ReplyDeletea laff on a prominent conservative buffoon sends students "a message about which points of view are acceptable and which are unacceptable."The students were no doubt forced to laff at gunpoint.
ReplyDeleteOkay, my turn to call dibs on a name for my band: Bottum and the Holy Dreads.
ReplyDeleteIt's the ass singing lead.
It's our hair.
No wait, it's both. And much, much more.
"liberalisms tenants"
ReplyDeleteThere are NO liberal landlords.
Watch it, you!
ReplyDeleteWhen support for gay marriage gets ugly
ReplyDeleteWhereas those against marriage rights for all are the kindest & most civil of all.
Oh, I'm pretty much convinced conservatism is defined by a lack of empathy.
ReplyDeleteLinker states "These so-called liberals want Anderson to be shunned. Expelled from the community. Excommunicated from civilized life. Ostracized from the ranks of the decent."
ReplyDeleteYes, I do. The man advocates for discriminating against gays based on some flawed reading of the Bible. That should be shunned.
Now my thetan is all kinds of operatin'!
ReplyDelete"These homos are tryin' to support my business by giving me money! Halp! Halp! I'm bein' oppressed!!!!"
ReplyDeleteclose our eyes in holy dread
ReplyDeleteWhen the right time come it will be dread for sure but no one can stop the righteous ones!
Grumblegrumblegrumble...
ReplyDeleteAside from a 1941 Yellow Peril novel, Heinlein had a strong record as a critic of racism.
*sigh*. Jeet, old bean, maybe if you'd read the biography a bit closer--and yes, Patterson did a horrible job--you'd know Sixth Column was a John Campbell novel RAH agreed to re-write, removing as much of the racism as possible in the process, and rendering it readable, which much of Campbell's stuff was not. (He was a much better editor that writer). Heinlein later wrote that he "had to reslant it to remove racist aspects of the original story line" and that he did not "consider it to be an artistic success."[1]
Also too:
Leslyn found Virginia threatening so the marriage collapsed in 1947
There was a hell of a lot more involved than that, including alcoholism, and wartime stress, including her sister's family being in the Philippines when the Japanese attacked. it can be argued that Leslyn's deterioration drove RAH and Virginia closer together than they might have been. Or not. But to collapse a years-long story into that one short sentence is lazy.
How is babby formed
ReplyDelete"Lord, give me sentience, but not yet."
ReplyDeleteHe shouldn't have hesitated w/ that sacrificial blade, or they'd still be for him.
ReplyDelete...
ReplyDeleteAll together now (freshly): "Screech the controversy!"
ReplyDeleteOh, looky here:
ReplyDeleteA record-high 6 in 10 Americans support same-sex marriage and a similar share say individual states should not be allowed to define marriage as only between a man and a woman, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.Now we'll see their commitment to democracy & the rule of law.
Or a civil war. as some have promised.
That's perfect.
ReplyDeleteThis. It's easy to forget just how much the media landscape (god, I hate that term) has changed. People who don't have Fox News or talk radio implanted into their brains sometimes hear a different story!
ReplyDeleteSpare the blade and spoil the child.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a shame RAH and Gerstenfeld ever met, because Robert and Leslyn were almost a storybook matched set. Leslyn was probably responsible for a good deal of Robert's Left-leaning politics in the '30s and early '40s. Gerstenfeld changed all that. Not singlehandedly, of course, but I've no doubt he'd have ended up a different man if he'd never divorced and remarried. Dunno if I've ever read this anywhere, but I suspect he was easily influenvced by the women in his life.
ReplyDeleteDemocracy only works when the majority of people agree with wingnuts.
ReplyDelete"A fresh voice on slavery"
ReplyDelete"A fresh voice on the 40 hour work week"
"A fresh voice on Kenny G"
Lotta them posing macho dudes get their noses open real easy.
ReplyDeleteWhich may be why they're such macho poseurs.
From Sense and Sensibility:
ReplyDelete[John Dashwood] was not an ill-disposed young man, unless to be rather cold hearted and rather selfish is to be ill-disposed: but he was, in general, well respected; for he conducted himself with propriety in the discharge of his ordinary duties. Had he married a more amiable woman, he might have been made still more respectable than he was:—he might even have been made amiable himself; for he was very young when he married, and very fond of his wife. But Mrs. John Dashwood was a strong caricature of himself;—more narrow-minded and selfish.
Austen knew people.
They make the mistake of conspiracy theorists everywhere, that everyone with whom they disagree is a pefectly coordinated monolithic bloc and the most extreme rhetoric of the opposition is a perfect measure of the entire group's opinions.
ReplyDeleteYou are on a total fucking roll today.
ReplyDeleteeven back in the Old South, a common argument against emancipation was the fear that slaves would simply turn around and enslave whites as brutal domination was the only social relation available to the conservative mind)
ReplyDeleteI live in the New South; you've just encapsulated what so many people here think President Obama, 7 years into his term, is still going to do to white people.
Too bad he doesn't have a pizza place and a GoFundMe site.
ReplyDeleteAfter you take it, St. Ron's Wort puts itself to sleep.
ReplyDeleteI bet he's getting more calls and emails
ReplyDeleteHe should be bracing for stalkers and death threats, the way the flying monkeys of the right like to roll.
I wish that was hyperbole.
Hey, let's have some affection for the straight man/set-up guy.
ReplyDeleteHey... maybe the kid had it coming...
ReplyDeletehttp://biblehub.com/leviticus/20-9.htm
I'll be willing to settle for people saying to and about Anderson that he's a blight on society, that people like him are destroying western civilization, that his sexual proclivities are immoral, that his choice of life partner is an absurd parody of real love, that he is not entitled to parent his own children, that he is a danger to children, that he probably performs sex acts with animals, that he will probably die horribley of a sexually transmitted disease, that g-d hates him, that g-d loves him but dooms him to eternal hell fire and, oh, one other thing: he can't buy a cake, flowers, health care, medicine, or transportation from anyone who wants to refuse it to him. Turnabout is fair play. If that is excommunication and ostracization well, as someone here always says "I learned it from YOU, Dad! I learned it from YOU!"
ReplyDeleteI've been wasting time reading all about the hijacking of the Hugo awards on various blogs. The response of the jackbooted, dominionist, anti woman, homophobic, Sad Puppies/Rabid Puppies supporters is to come on to every blog that mentions them and say 1) we are the kindest, gentlest, people ever and you have no right quoting anything we've said that implies to the contrary and 2) we will destroy you and 3) how dare you refuse to engage with us and stamp all over our reasoned arguments.
ReplyDeletePrince Namor? Sigh! That takes me back.
ReplyDeleteThat sounds like it definitely should have been in Harry Potter.
ReplyDeleteI think you should reformulate that to be more threatening:
ReplyDeleteWe wait here--and we willwait here. The waitening.
Issac Asimov mentions RAH was easily influenced by women in one of his autobiographies (he wrote 3). RAH was a real jingoistic patriot manly-man, but he really liked women! (Impossible!) And he wasn't racist except for his attitude towards redheads ("sub-race") tho it was entirely admiring. And maybe right, if we get our red-hair genes from Neanderthals. Heinlein would have adored that nugget of quasi-info.
ReplyDeleteRight--the thing is that they also have Hitler confused with the crazed antichrist of the left behind books so when they criticize Obama for being like Hitler what they really mean is that they think he talks peace but brings armageddon. This is the only way in which he is also a "charismatic leader like Hitler." HE's not.
ReplyDeleteHitler proposed a war footing, a war, and the death of outsiders. He used violent nationalism and anti semitism because they were convenient and attractive to his potential followers. Obama is or at least was also a charismatic political actor but all of his rhetoric was aimed at unifying the country and bringing about a happier state for everyone. Only because they really think that is a stage in the end times/ revelation storyline.
Well, threatening or bravely/self-pityingly fatalistic.
ReplyDeleteDon't keep anything back! I feel better after just reading your comment!
ReplyDelete"A fresh voice on poisoning our Nation's aquifers during a record drought!
ReplyDeleteFascinating and horrible. Just horrible to read. Also very interesting--I read Rissa Kerguelin by F.M. Busby when I was a little girl. It blew me away. I didn't realize it was anything other than a book on the shelf in my father's house. http://www.amazon.com/Rissa-Kerguelen-F-M-Busby/dp/0425037398 but now I want to go back and read it again.
ReplyDeleteUprating for Austen. Oh, how I love that passage!
ReplyDeleteIt's not like he has a real job to lose; he has to find the martyrdom where he can.
ReplyDeletelet's have some affection for the straight man
ReplyDeleteWe've all heard that before.
I've got to say, it is stranger and sadder than Gamergate. At least there it seemed many of the gators were young. As bad as their actions were, there's a good chance that they could get their lives in order and live to feel embarrassed about their behavior. I remember being a young dumb nerd. There but for the grace of glob (and the existence of social media) go I.
ReplyDeleteBut the Puppies ... They seem to be drawn from the MRA abuser pool. Mentally, I separate MRAs into the young frustrated men (see above) who will hopefully grow out of acting that way and the older divorced sad sacks who need to exert control over the woman that left. I just can't see any hope for the latter group. I don't think they'll ever figure out how to be in a non-abusive relationship, and therefore how to find love. They're left with pissing on good things on the internet out of spite and trying to turn the young nerds towards a life of misogyny.
It's what the whole MRA movement is about.
ReplyDeleteC'mon, I qualified it w/ "set-up guy".
ReplyDeleteSad Puppies. Never has a movement been more well-named.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what his political persuasions are, but I've been lucky enough to have a landlord who's actually pretty darn nice. He hasn't raised the rent in something like ten years and he's perfectly happy to take money off what I owe him for improvements and maintenance around the house and even waiving rent completely for a month when I repainted the house I live in. It's pretty rare, unfortunately, but there are landlords who aren't assholes.
ReplyDeleteWhat's that sound? Oh, that's just Bobby in there whacking off for his fans.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to meet one. Ha ha.
ReplyDeleteI suspect house renting may be different from apartment renting.
Some are saying these asshats have broken the Hugos, and they might be right.
ReplyDeleteI'm puzzled by the "Nuclear inspections = Obama wants to give Iran the BOMB!" argument. It doesn't even make sense yet they all believe it as fact.
ReplyDeleteWhoops! Sorry, I thought better of my post and deleted it before you answered because I thought it might have come across as bragging or defending landlords in a general sense. This is awkward. Long story short, I'm lucky enough to have a landlord who's not a slimy, gouging Dickens villain, a situation which is sadly pretty rare.
ReplyDeleteThe New South? I remember that. It was during the Carter administration. Didn't last long.
ReplyDeleteHey everybody, we need to have a blog pool or something on when Ted Cruz will drop out of the race. My money says he's out by January 1st. Any takers?
ReplyDeleteInadvertently, it would seem; they named themselves
ReplyDeleteafter the effect they hoped it would have on their enemies, to wit, make sad puppies out of them.
I want to be ostracized with this comment in strict accordance with Leviticus to make sure that God continues to bless the United States of America.
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows that threesomes dont involve gay women--they involve het men and their harems. Or, as a guy i knew once explained male interest in lesbian sex: " two women means more for me!"
ReplyDeleteI am enjoying/not enjoying this writeup of it: http://www.philipsandifer.com/2015/04/guided-by-beauty-of-their-weapons.html
ReplyDeleteAt my age, intellectual light trickles down my leg well after I think I'm done.
ReplyDeleteLet me know when this happens to one of the bullied & persecuted typists defending their liberty to be assholes:Gay student has screwdriver jabbed in face during ‘5-round’ brawl as principal watches without helpingOtherwise they might consider shutting their traps about being "bullied".
ReplyDeleteI know the feeling.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J1sOQdvudc
She'll NEED to be persistent and merciless
ReplyDeleteBOTH SIDES DO IT
Whoa. Me too. Holy Frankenfuck. Thank you thank you thank you for this link. The links within the write-up are well worth wading through the mean nastiness he has to relate. Gromit, you made my day.
ReplyDeleteFANTASTIC thread. I adored Heinlein in my early teens. And I never had a falling out. I just drifted away from s.f. per se. (I wrote a fan letter to Asimov, urging him to write a third "s.f. detective" novel, and he wrote a postcard back and I was THRILLED.)
ReplyDeleteHeinlein's bio would make a tremendous subject for some writer.
Same here. The landlords live next door. We do repairs and take them off the rent and all is well. Not that their putting 20K into this old house would be inappropriate--most of the outlets have two, not three, slots. As long as we don't die of carbon monoxide poisoning from the 30 year old heat/a.c. unit, we're cool.
ReplyDeleteIs this solipsism, I wonder, also connected to or behind the conservative impulse to keep the hyperbole pegged to 11 at all times? Because what else drives the phony outrage, the hair on fire shrieking over the most mundane activity or prosaic policy decisions by the Obama Administration? Yes, I know ginning up new sets of lies every week is an essential part of the rage machine that keeps the base petrified, which dovetails quite elegantly with the aims of the Kochs, but, c'mon. The pronunciations and denunciations spewed by Krauthammer, Rove and hundreds of others are just too venomous .
ReplyDeleteTHE GINGER OF THE GODS
ReplyDeleteThe lack of empathy on the left is nearly as dismaying. I think the right is crippled by its inability to think through problems or past its sick ideology, but empathy? I think that's a peculiarly American failing.
ReplyDelete"today the hugos, tomorrow the world!"
ReplyDeleteLOOGY might be a more appropriate baseball pitching term
ReplyDeleteand simply close our eyes in holy dread.
ReplyDeleteOy, the melodrama.
I found it fascinating although the site seems to have killed or removed my innocuous posts. Not sure why. Also very funny to bump into Brad deLong there--talking about Lois McMaster Bujold a personal favorite of mine-- since I know him/knew him IRL without ever once knowing he read Bujold. How strange and intimate are the precincts of the internet.
ReplyDeleteGot through half of what Gromet linked to, but it's a good piece and tells me more than I wanted to know about what's happening with the Hugos. Fucking hell. I think Sandifer's notion of "fascism" is a bit limited--there's no mention of the collusion between capital and government--but he writes well.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I feel about s.f. like a grandfather looking with both fondness and disapproval at grandchildren. "Is that what they're doing now?" Then again, I read Vernor Vinge's A Fire in the Deep--old enough to be a modern classic--and couldn't love it. Can't we stop at Neuromancer?
From Packer:
ReplyDeleteAlthough he's the target of constant insults and ad hominem abuse online, he invariably responds with patience and respect — certainly more than I could muster. Why should this person, who's so patently devoted to the reasonable exchange of arguments, be considered beyond the bounds of civilized discourse?
Asserting in a column posted online that Traevon Martin wasn't a dangerous thug and that Michael Brown didn't need to be put down will get you the kind of verbal abuse that would turn Anderson's hair into an afro. Being a woman and having an opinion on video games can get you death/rape threats. Take an aspirin and keep the band-aid clean. The doctor will see you when he gets to you.
I wonder who got to hold the e-meter.
ReplyDeleteIYKWIMAITYD
Those aren't popsicles!
ReplyDeleteFrom what I know of Campbell I can easily believe that he needed Heinlein to tone down the racist crazy in his novel.
ReplyDeleteI'll upvote it, but I ain't picturing it.
ReplyDeleteOne of the commenters at WaPo uses this argument against gay marriage: Nature is what it is.
ReplyDeleteYes, nature is what is is, motherfucker
Everybody thinks American exceptionalism means we think we are special; more moral, harder working, more successful, more free.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't. It means we think we are excepted from the consequences of our actions.
Science fiction has always had conservatives among its esteemed writers. There still are respectable right wing speculative fiction authors, like Gene Wolfe and Dan Simmons. The latter has never really been my cup of tea, but I don't think he's won awards by accident. The puppy movement wants something else, seemingly for conservatives to win just for showing up.
ReplyDeleteRabid Puppies definitely draw from the fever pits of the MRA movement, and there's a big overlap with GamerGate. Sad Puppies, I'm guessing, have some workaday conservatives among their ranks who might be susceptible to shame.
Expiration dates: learn to read them.
ReplyDeleteHuh. But are we excepted because and/or as long as we are more moral, more hard-working, etc.? As in, as long as we are those things, God will keep us his favored nation and shield us from the consequences of our actions? If so there's probably some connection to Calvinism there. That crazy anxiety that we must be the Elect, but what if we're not, we better burn some witches -- that's what the Elect would do! Not suffer a witch! Or gays, or savage immigrants, or whatever the witch of the week is.
ReplyDelete(Which maybe relates to Ormond's post above (or below!) about how conservatives can't imagine a different way of being. I think liberals are more likely to ask: if we don't burn witches, will we live alongside them with decreasing panic? And the answer is objectively yes. Unless you're a conservative...)
Deleted your posts? Hmm... [imagining Aimai writing long diatribes in defense of Stalin and trying to drum up interest in her forthcoming ebook, Space Lyncher: The Future Adventures of Time-Traveling Icon Nathan Bedford Forrest (vol. 5).] Apparently comments got wicked out of hand one night and in the morning he conducted an extensive house-cleaning. Maybe you got scooped up if yours were replies to the out of handers.
ReplyDeleteFor the past month, Rod has been all gay marriage, all the
ReplyDeletetime, with occasional pleas to buy his book on "How Dante cured my mono
after I had a sad because my dead sister's family objected to me trying
to cash in on her death through my last book which also painted my
entire hometown as a pack of Forrest Gumps".
So many questions:
1)
How much of this is Rod trying to pump up his writing career in the most
loathsome, sub-Ann Coulter ways he can think of (cashing in on his dead
sister, beating up on people who can't fight back, etc), and how much
of this does he actually believe?
2) Why do the unnamed
correspondents Rod keeps quoting as begging him to write yet another
book on how to go the full Jonestown... sorry, Benedict... have writing
styles that look completely identical to Rod's own?
3) How many more books in the "How the world wronged Rod Dreher" series can he write (he's just published book number 2)?
4) How can Rod function as a human being with all the bitterness he seems to have against those he believes wronged him?
5)
What will Rod's next religion be? How long before he officially sets
up the Church of the Cosmic Penis, in which he can finally dispense with
all that Jesus stuff and get down to what's truly important to him, in
the cosmic sense, of course - masculinity, sweaty, hard, erect
masculinity.
6) Is there a human being anywhere, living or dead, who obsesses about homosexuality more than Rod?
7) Should Rod just make himself a Grindr profile and be done with it?
Oh, that's an old classic. You hear it a lot on Limbaugh and the other screamer programs. When liberals don't behave like the ridiculous strawman caricatures they've built are supposed to, why, it's proof that liberals are duplicitous liars who don't believe in anything - don't even have the courage of their awful convictions - and will say and do anything to gain and hold power. It's a nice heads-I-win, tails-you-lose arrangement.
ReplyDeleteI've run into this a lot in when I get trapped in an IRL conversation with wingnuts. Usually, the fact that I stand and argue and refute their dumb dailiy points makes them REALLY MAD, because liberals are supposed to be all tolerant and passive and wimpy and seeing-both-sides and s-s-scared of confrontation. The fact that I don't behave liked I'm supposed to is proof that I (and liberals in general) am some kind of monstrous hypocrite.
Do you Dig-Duggars?
ReplyDeleteWe elect a president who bombs people by pushing a button. We say we didn't have a choice. We do not feel responsible for his bombings.
ReplyDeleteThe bombing killed an American hostage. We do not feel responsible for his death. We don't even think about whether our decisions had anything to do with it.
Obama bailed out the banks. Nobody went to jail. The middle class is poorer. The top of the upper class is richer. We do not feel responsible for the increase in poor people.
"Obama" is simply the leader; he/she could be anyone and is everyone in those positions.
We look at these conservatives and they are genuinely bad people. They are cruel and deliberately want to harm others. They are sick in that they can't see anything but what they want and their plans to get it. They want to destroy others. They must be stopped--over and over and over, as many times as it takes.
We are not the bad guys; that is true. But we are not the good guys either. We do not fight for what is right. We fight the people who say we have to fight for what is right. We know that if we fight, really fight the way Black protestors are fighting, we will be held responsible for our actions because they affect the people in power instead of the poor people. They are beaten, jailed, left with criminal records, probably will lose their jobs. Their families will suffer.
We have a choice between suffering ourselves or letting the poor suffer. We choose the poor. We say it's for the children.
We can't live with that knowledge. So we say we are not responsible for the consequences of our actions.
Maybe we don't even have to fight. Social Security is still around because everyone knows that if you take that away from people-people who vote-you'll suffer the consequence. Millions of people will make you miserable. So even though Obama and everyone else wanted to "reform" it, we have people trying to increase it.
ReplyDeleteTo paraphrase The Who.
ReplyDeleteMeet the new South
Same as the old South
My wife went to that high school, and is completely unsurprised. (She couldn't get out fast enough.)
ReplyDeleteTed will unite the non establishment wing of the party into a grand unified crazy and win the nomination.
ReplyDeleteIt makes more sense if you're willing to start your thinking process with the conclusion that Obama hates America, and then work backwards from there.
ReplyDeleteI've got two predictions: Ted Cruz will last longer than Marco Rubio, but Scott Walker will end up winning the nomination.
ReplyDeleteWalker is the perfect Republican candidate for the presidency. No one else can match his combined low intelligence and his powerful eagerness to please his paymasters.
I'm going to go back to Josh Marshall's description of Cruz as "super smart; total asshole", and predict that some sneaky video footage will leak of Cruz being a total asshole. Maybe he'll be making an unpaid campaign intern cry, or verbally abusing a truck-stop waitress, or speaking in tongues. But sooner or later he's going to be an asshole in front of somebody with a smartphone, and then it's a one-way trip to GiulianiLand.
ReplyDeleteNot breaking the Hugos so much as demonstrating how the Hugos were already broken; it's a fan award, and letting people vote who aren't even at the con but willing to send them $40 is just the sort of set-up that will attract the sort of regressive, poorly-socialized Gamergate-sympathetic fanboy who wouldn't think twice about dropping that much on an action figure.
ReplyDeleteGood catch. Their "long term strategy" is to milk the rubes for as long and as much as they possibly can, then switch flags and chastise the "haters" for not letting bygones be bygones. See, for example, Ken Mehlman, or even George Wallace for that matter.
ReplyDelete"A fresh voice on How To Serve Man: look, you can't deny that at least they're tasty-sounding recipes"
ReplyDeletePlease know I am not scolding you. Please. But do go read the rest of Sandifer's piece, if only to click on a few links to stories that are really good despite being antithetical to the various Puppies' ideology.
ReplyDeleteI don't feel scolded. I'm sure there are great stories and I'll check the links. Thanks for the suggestion.
ReplyDeleteAs exemplified by the "end of history scam" we heard of back in the 90s and which reached horrific proportions just a few years later. We won the Cold War, we're alone at the top, and, most significantly, "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
ReplyDeleteI've tried reading a few of his stories, and his "Tales of Super-Science" style is highly off-putting. When he turned to editing, he found his true place in SF, and we're better off for it. He insisted on SF with real science, and real people in in. Pretty much the opposite of the shit he's written himself.
ReplyDeleteThe typical response to that I've seen today is "they only polled 1000 people. They must have only asked the fruits and faggots. If they had asked any of my friends, then they would have gotten the real story"
ReplyDeleteFucking statistics. How do they work?
Ordinarily I wouldn't bother commenting on this, but you baffled the gab out of me with "... Anderson recently received flattering coverage in the Washington Post (strange are the ways of the liberal media! I thought they were all in the tank for Gay ObamaHitler) ". I mean, Liberal Media??? Really? You think the Washington Post is Liberal Media? Fred Hiatt has turned the entire editorial page operation over to neoconservatives, Bushites, Cheneyites, and wingnuts, and you call them liberal? Bartender, another Prestone!
ReplyDeleteI've read elsewhere that people who knew Heinlein said that he started moving extremely right after he married Virginia. He was somewhat conservative before, but became more and more extreme after.
ReplyDeleteFunny how these people always want us to know they don't have a problem with persons of homosexual orientation, even as they make it very clear that they do.
ReplyDelete