I didn't realize that before the era of ObamaHitler, there were organ transplants enough for everyone. I guess it's true that socialism creates scarcities!
Seriously, this is the biggest load of shit yet. To the extent that any of them can get beyond Sebelius-murders-little-girl, they affect disbelief that somebody makes medical decisions about organ transplants. I don't know how they think these things should be resolved -- maybe they think we should put all the available organs in a circle and have people compete for them, as in a game of Spoons.
No no Roy, like in the Hunger Games.
ReplyDeleteThink of the extra organs that can be harvested!
~
Jesus, it's even worse than you make it out, Roy. You are again being too charitable.
ReplyDeleteHere's what Sebelius said: The medical evidence and the transplant doctors who are making the rule — and have had the rule in place since 2005 making a delineation between pediatric and adult lungs, because lungs are different that other organs — that it’s based on the survivability [chances].
Science?! When has that ever worked?
and have had the rule in place since 2005
ReplyDeleteSee how fiendish Obama and company are? They travel through time.
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Obviously, give all transplant organs to a private company who will distribute them based on the fair principles of 'voluntary trade' - which, as we know, works in every situation ever to occur.
ReplyDeleteHey, if you _really_ needed that new heart, you'd find the money somewhere to outbid everyone else.
To be fair, these ghoulish wingnut fuckwits mitigate their offensive stupidity somewhat by their united calls for Dick Cheney to give his transplanted heart back.
ReplyDeleteRepo Men!
ReplyDelete*yes, I liked the film - even despite the Terry Gilliam/Monty Python "homages"
It's not for nothing that he's known as the dumbest motherfucker on the internets...which gives short shrift to his followers, I'll grant you.
ReplyDeleteI have some questions, primary among them: who is the little girl's insurer, and have they already agreed to pay for the procedure? Because you know, no, they haven't, and furthermore, they won't if it's an expensive procedure (which you can bet your ass it is) and the medical data says the likelihood for a good outcome is nil.
Only someone as dumb as Hoft (or one of his followers) would fail to grasp that these calculations have been being made for the past umpteen years primarily at the behest of insurance companies. A sentient being would further recognize that since Obamacare is yet to be enacted, it would be kind of hard for it to be the issue in this case.
Shriek on you crazy wingnuts.
This reminds me of my observation back in 2008 as the economy melted down that we should just be thankful that they weren't yet selling derivatives on human organs, because once they figured out they had 5 trillion kidneys in trade but only 14 billion or so in actual existence, it wouldn't be pretty when they started collecting. Kind of like the liver donor scene in Monty Python's Meaning of Life.
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No need to apologize for liking Repo Man. Everybody needs a code to live by.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJXT5lc1Bg
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I'm eagerly awaiting the slide show of Obama running around the Oval Office, looking under the desk and sofa cushions for the missing organs
ReplyDeleteThey're emotionally 13 years old, and not able to think their way out of a paper bag, so of course they couldn't get their head around something like this.
ReplyDeleteRepo Man is very different from Repo Men.
ReplyDeleteAh, Harry... "Repo Man's got all night, every night!"
ReplyDeleteClassic!
But I meant the Jude Law/Forrest Whitaker movie. :p
Plate of shrimp.
ReplyDeleteSo, anyone else notice that they're basically asking Sebelius to be a one person Death Panel here? To decide which person gets which lungs based on political and personal considerations, and not objective medical standards? And they're getting on her case for not doing that? Talk about irony.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you are watching "Repo Men", at least this means that you are not watching "Repo! The Genetic Opera".
ReplyDeleteA little girl is dying, quick how can we score political points off of this?
ReplyDeleteLook, I had ballsack surgey a few years ago. The thinking was that it was testicular cancer but it turned out it was something called Hydrocele and easily fixable. All I got is a pirate scar on my sack. My dad was treated for throat cancer a while back, and it may be returning. He's going in again in a week or so. There's no paperwork, no dealing with insurance companies. Yeah, Universal Healthcare is the ulitmate evil.
ReplyDeleteI was promised vat-grown lungs for everyone. Where are my vat-grown lungs?!
ReplyDeleteI blame stupid libruls for putting the kybosh on stem-cell research.
What I got is a pirate scar
ReplyDeleteI imagine this is a great boon at fancy-dress parties.
Yeah, but converting your dress pants to crotchless is probably a lot more trouble than it's worth.
ReplyDeleteAs if I'd ever wear pants around you guys.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Bush's ban on stem-cell research---which research could lead to the ability to grow replacement organs for those in need--ever figures into the tiny little brains of these people.
ReplyDeleteNope. Throw away things that would already be thrown away, anyway, Instead of, ya know, helping people. I share your frustration.
ReplyDeleteIf only W. Preznit Bush were still alive. He'd fly back to Wash'n'tn quicker than you can say "Terri Schiavo" and do some real photo-opping and fund raisn' with the Dimmycrats morphin' inna Doc Kervorkian. Now THERE were a real Preznit!
ReplyDeleteHaving worked with a transplant candidate and having gone through the transplant process with him and his medical teams, I can say with confidence that UNOS and transplant teams are very conscientious and they give some seriously informed consent.
ReplyDeletePerhaps these people don't understand that if authorities make an exception for one person that they are also lowering the chances that the other people on the list will get a transplant on time. No doubt, the uber-individual daydreams of wing-nut pundits makes epidemiology mystical if not devious; but that's why we need for the people who make these decisions to make medical decisions.
Changing the rules won't provide enough organs for everyone who needs one. Giving a child adult lungs that don't work would kill the child and could also kill the person who would have gotten them if no exception and/or change had been made in the rules.
The horror of a child dying is impossible to bear, but that's not a medical consideration. UNOS is playing the odds, and they should.
I'm really surprised the lead paint babies over at NatRev haven't yet hit on the obvious solution: anyone receiving any form of government aid should be forced to donate their organs any time a white girl needs one. That way they'll have organs in the game!
ReplyDeleteOregon Health and Science University has found a way to make stem cells out of skin cells.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm for organ donation being opt-out instead of in, for everyone. but your point is not lost.
ReplyDeletePatriots of America unite! You have nothing to lose but your death panels.
ReplyDeleteBob
Well, there's always teeth.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that people receiving government aid are alive, though.
ReplyDeleteNormally I stay away from the comments, but geez, the top rated one:
ReplyDeleteIf this girl had been an illegal mexican , or black, would this woman have said the same thing ?
Impressive. Even YouTube commenters don't go racist that quick.
Not spoons! Spoons can't be rigged to favor white people.
ReplyDeleteOne of the problems is that a lot of donated organs aren't viable for transplant. So a lot more donors and a higher number of organs than are needed for transplant need to be harvested for everyone in need to have a chance (not everyone survives the operation).
ReplyDeleteOne of the most arduous things some candidates have experienced is being called in once or more and prepped for the operation--- which includes everyone on the team coming to your room to tell how you can die from the part of the procedure that they're working on and having you sign their consent form--- while a transplant surgeon is harvesting an organ, just to find out that it isn't in good enough shape to survive the operation or isn't worth bother.
Being on a transplant requires a lot of compliance--- lots of people get knocked off the list for not complying--- and a grueling waiting period that involves waiting and dying. The fact that a candidate is waiting for someone else to die is very hard for some candidates to bear. It makes wanting the transplant, wanting to live, feel gruesome and ghoulish.
It's not easy for anyone. Nobody "just" gets a transplant. I really hate it when people talk about it like it's as easy as having your oil changed.
Jesus in a hospital bed that's wicked.
ReplyDeleteThis is the beauty of the market god: no one decides who lives and who dies, it's all given up to a natural process. Regulations mean responsibility, and responsibility means you can blame someone, whether it's the person who wrote them, or the person enforcing them.
ReplyDeleteSo they don't want to resolve it; they want it to resolve itself. If that means someone gets an organ transplant, it works! If it means someone dies, well, let go and let Mammon.
Uh, I get that, And never said against it. If I've sais something stupid, please tell me.
ReplyDeleteI get that there will never be enough organs, all I prposed was opt-out
ReplyDeleteHydrocele? Sounds more like a pokemon than a disease.
ReplyDelete"Looks like you blew a hydrocele..."
ReplyDelete[Larry] Niven said a good way to help hospitals stem financial losses is to
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Uh... sorry, but they looked so delicious...
ReplyDeleteI don't care.
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Compare my junkbag to pokemon again and I'll remove yours and feed it to the goats at the local zoo.
ReplyDeleteThis is not meant in mean way. just a friendly thing.
Friendly to the goats, at any rate.
ReplyDeleteTHIS, however, is pretty close to the truth. Hydrocele is basically a plumbing probem, a burst vessel.
ReplyDeleteDepends on the taste of Lee's fungibles.
ReplyDeletethey were delicious so sweet and so cold...
ReplyDeleteAlveolicious!
ReplyDeleteThey haven't caught up with Bladerunner -- the Alan Nourse novel, not the movie -- in which government health assistance comes at the cost of sterilisation. Don't give them ideas.
ReplyDeleteThomas Sowell has been pushing this argument for a decade, at least.
ReplyDeleteGo back and look at that comment, D Johnston, and specifically, try, just try, to vote it down.
ReplyDeleteHoft has his comments set up so you can't downvote anything without signing in first. What a pussy.
Obviously you are too red to get it. It is the DemonRAT who is the racist and that comment proves it.
ReplyDelete(Seriously, I felt queasy yesterday reading through 100s of these loons and their wild accusations of racism, Hitlerism, elitism, and lawlessness.)
Damn straight. :)
ReplyDeleteAgent Rogersz:
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes."
Perhaps these people don't understand that if authorities make an exception for one person that they are also lowering the chances that the other people on the list will get a transplant on time.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they don't understand that, or don't want to. The comment threads are full of angry citizens who seem to think there are doctors desperately trying to save this girl, and Sebelius is standing athwart the operating table saying "No! Throw that new lung in the garbage." I spent yesterday checking in on a lung thread at CBS News that ballooned to thousands of comments, and easily 90% of those showed no understanding and no interest in understanding.
The party line among the idiots, in case you're curious, was that "Sebelius just became the first member of the Death Panel." It was no use pointing out that by refusing to intervene, she'd done the opposite of what a "Death Panel" would do. When that idea got any reaction at all, it was a lot of shouting that "the govt ALREADY intervened by making an arbitrary policy barring doctors from helping her -- as if these Obamacare bureaucrats should be making ANY medical decisions at all!" I pointed out that the policy was set in 2005, before Obama -- to no response. I also asked a poster or two if they had knowledge of how the policy was decided -- was it really an "arbitrary" decision made without input from doctors? No one answered that, and the tide of morons never stopped coming in. There was literally zero interest in understanding what was going on.
A couple loons told me the ACA made Sebelius the decider of life and death and I should "READ THE BILL" because that's in there. I asked for a link or quote and got no reply.
It was shocking how many people showed up to rant against the ACA on fantasy grounds. For the most part I did not antagonize; I was hoping to prompt one loon or other to do some actual homework or make a real case. But it was a very Dog-Ate-My-HomIMPEACHNOBAMA crowd.
Look, I had ballsack surgey
ReplyDeleteNope. Not gonna look.
Good thing CBS didn't initially report this part of the quote yesterday. If they had, even lunatics might have had to hesitate in their fury at the ACA; CBS page views might have dropped, and their ad revenue with it.
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Somebody tell me how the everloving FUCK you live in America and get away with saying "Obama wants my health care decisions to be made by bureaucrats!"
ReplyDeleteWho the fuck runs your insurance company? Apparently, unlike every goddamned insurance plan I've ever heard of or seen, Ace of Spades' unquestioningly pays out for any procedure his doctors ask for. The ones I've encountered have big copays, limits on how much money you can spend, and will happily argue with your doctor about what your treatment should be.
I don't know, that's probably the least galling thing here. As people have pointed out, in this case it seems to be a government official REFUSING to override the decisions of professionals.
I just... how do you fucking get away with these arguments that contradict the actual experience of everybody you're making it to? It's like they're complaining that "Obama wants the sun to rise in the east!"
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The bizzarro world of cognitive dissonance coupled with stupidity in the comments is mind-boggling. How's this for a tasty mango?
ReplyDelete"Refusing to interfere is indeed the ultimate form of interference."
LOLWUT??
I wasn't arguing with you, HMDK. Should have said I agree with the opt-out too.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you being defensive, HMDK? I agree with what you said, was just elaborating because it's a powerful peeve for me when stupid people--- like Holt--- talk shit about transplant candidates, and think they can make better decisions than UNOS and transplant teams about who is "deserving" of transplants and when.
ReplyDeleteThese wingnuts are stupid enough to think that most of the world works in real life the way it "works" in their heads, or that it should. They have this tendency to rally people to oppose best practices because of whatever poster-child they want to hold up as the person who is really deserving. Then they preen about how much they "care," impervious to the fact that they don't know jack shit about organ plants, and that they're playing popular death panel for everyone else on the list.
It's tragic that this girl needs a lung transplant and may die before she gets one. Given that adult lungs would NOT work, should we then all be sad that more children aren't being shot in the head to make them perfect donors for this child they latched onto?
One of the most important ethical responsibilities for transplant teams is not to give patients false hope. This little public protest and "bright idea" just adds cruelty to an already too tragic situation.
I left a couple of comments. I find it incredible that these people believe that the Secretary of HHS has the power to overrule medical decisions.
ReplyDeleteMein Gott.
ReplyDeleteShe does, in their heads, and that's what counts.
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But Anthony Stewart Head has the voice of a zombie angel!
ReplyDeleteAh, I would have gone the WC Williams route if you hadn't gotten there first, and with such style.
ReplyDeleteOf course! He had to go back in time to plant that phony birth certificate in Hawaii.
ReplyDeleteOverrule medical decisions? Hell, Sebelius can undo death!!! Of course she'll only reanimate you if you promise to vote Democrat.
ReplyDeleteI find your idea for a new reality show intriguing, and I think we should find an agent posthaste.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a real lung unless you entrap a poor person into giving it to you.
ReplyDeleteHey wingnuts, this story better wrap up quick, because if you force me to be sympathetic towards Kathleen 'denying young women access to reproductive care is good old-fashioned common sense' Sebellius I am going to be extremely angry.
ReplyDeleteYou know, the better joke would have been:
ReplyDeleteGoats eat scrotes?
Can I get a mulligan?
That's one of the notions in his early books. That transplants would/will be so easy and happen so often, minor offenses would be Capital Crimes punishable by death (after harvesting organs).
ReplyDeleteMaisy dotes and goatse dscrotes .
ReplyDeleteOkay, cool. No worries.
ReplyDeleteThat's like going to Egypt and not seeing the sphincter! Uh, I mean the Sphinx!
ReplyDeleteNo, but I eat goats. Or have. Along with rabbits and dromedaries.
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ReplyDeleteActually all kiboshes have to go through crazy Joe Davola. Obama policy.
ReplyDeleteI'a Barack!
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, "The Jigsaw Man." The only story in Dangerous Visions that made me think, "that's stupid, why would you print this.
ReplyDeleteTo the extent that any of them can get beyond Sebelius-murders-little-girl
ReplyDeleteIsn't Hoft the one who thinks that when the closed-captioning says "Applause" it's a command for the viewer to applaud? Yeah, I wouldn't wait up too late waiting for him to "get beyond" anything but the bounds of stupidity.
No doubt, the uber-individual daydreams of wing-nut pundits makes epidemiology mystical if not devious; but that's why we need for the people who make these decisions to make medical decisions.
ReplyDeleteMy parents are both epidemiologists. After watching them navigate the Bush administration, I can confirm that wingnuts in fact thing epidemiology is straight up witchcraft.
in which government health assistance comes at the cost of sterilisation.
ReplyDeleteBack in the 90s Republicans were pushing for mandatory norplant for anyone receiving any kind of public assistance. Which they were probably for right up until the birth control in Obamacare brouhaha.
Oh, I think Hoft will never get beyond the bounds of stupidity. He's been expanding that territory for years. For Hoft, reason is an event horizon too far and rapidly receding from view.
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Try to give her a gun, and then argue how pansy-fascist lie-bruhls are stomping on her right to defend herself.
ReplyDeleteMost Americans have been bred and conditioned for generations to be clueless to reality. Normal humans attempting to solve real-world problems only seems like work to them--and work on something that they don't want to believe is real, since their corporate masters and religious leaders tell them otherwise.
ReplyDeleteThe lazy-assed, frightened American authoritarian is offered two choices:
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Which pill would you take?
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Seconding this from inside the belly of the beast; the Bush administration tried to deemphasize epidemiology in favor of "faith-based initiatives".
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I've gotten to where, whenever I hear someone talk about "market solutions" I think "yeah, so you can corner it." Someone out there wants to corner the market on lung transplants, so they can be shipped in from China, preassembled.
ReplyDelete" I don't know how they think these things should be resolved "
ReplyDeleteDuh - they're conservatives, they think that people should get as many organs as they can pay big-ass cash money for. CREAM, etc...
Hmm, nothing against our dear leader but comments here work the same way.
ReplyDeleteSure. But at least we know that there are plenty of assholes available for transplant. Hoft and his ilk produce them like mushrooms after rain.
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You have to be signed in to disqus, but that's true of a lot of blogs.
ReplyDeleteI think it's actually more deluded than that. I think they're actually saying "Obama is making the sun rise in the east!"
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That's why the people we hurt the most are the people we've never met.
ReplyDeleteAre judges going to start to decide who gets an organ transplant?
ReplyDeleteC'mon, it's practically got the word "demon" right in the middle! Satan has to work harder than that to put one over on the Bushies!
ReplyDeleteIt's an amazing thing to witness how liberals do a complete 180 on their core beliefs when a Democrat president is in office
ReplyDeleteOur core belief that... juvenile organs just magically appear out of thin air? This is dumb Dennis, even for you.
ReplyDeleteHappily, this critique is so stupid that even some freepers are able to push back on it. See this thread, where people who actually know something about transplant protocols and medicine push back against the arble garble death panel talk: http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3027380/posts?q=1&;page=1
ReplyDeleteHa. Pretend like your reaction now is the same as it was when Bush was president. Not just this, but the scandals happening every week with this White House.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are sleep- walking now like a bunch if Ambien addicts.
Do you mean the actual scandals like the phone stuff that liberals actually are upset about, or do you mean the dumb, madeup stuff you guys are continually dreaming up because you're a movement of desperate losers who get off on pretending to be victims?
ReplyDeleteI am touched by your naive belief that the US will be a net importer of recycled humans.
ReplyDeletePeople with cystic fibrosis aren't necessarily good candidates for lung transplants to start with. CF doesn't just go away when you give the person new lungs. The 5 year median survival rate is about 50%.
ReplyDeleteLiberal reaction now to what didn't happen during the Bush administration?
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly are you referring to?
Ah, but was it a nucle-ar wessel?
ReplyDeleteKeep popping those Ambiens, sharky. Makes it easier to forget how you acted during the Bush years.
ReplyDeleteJimcima playing the role of Sgt. Schultz.
ReplyDeleteAuditioning for the next IRS training video.
Dennis, if you're that embarrassed by your constant need to pitch a fit about every little thing the President does, I have good news. You can grow up. You don't have to snivel about how it's everyone's fault but yours.
ReplyDelete"liberals do a complete 180 on their core beliefs"
ReplyDeleteAgain, what "core belief" is that?
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ReplyDeleteScandals? You mean like the "scandal" where the IRS broke no laws by applying extra scrutiny to some groups who were not even under the obligation to apply for 501(c)4 status because they could just declare it themselves, and because contributions to 501(c)4s aren't tax-deductible anyway, were not damaged by being unable to accept donations before their review request was completed - or at least wouldn't have been if they weren't dumbasses?
ReplyDeleteOr perhaps you mean the "scandal" in which the DOJ reviewed the phone records of reporters - again, not illegally - which never bothered you or the press when Bush did it illegally?
Or maybe it's the Benghazi "scandal" in which the White House took aobut two whole weeks to announce that the attack on the consulate was a planned terrorist attack rather than an outgrowth of a protest as they initially said. Which was way worse than the Bush administration repeatedly claiming that they had "no warning" about 9/11, which they continued to claim for lets see...about 9 - 10 months before we learned about the August PDB entitlted "Bin Laden determined to strike in US." I'm sure at the time you were screaming for Bush's impeachment, amirite?
No, of course I'm not right about that, because as we all know, you're a hypocritical whiny little bitch whose only principle is "if a Republican does it it's right; if a Democrat does it it's a crime."
To sum up: fuck you, Pennis.
All at once? A dromgobbit?
ReplyDeleteAs Fred Clark (Slacktivist) is constantly pointing out, they also think the UN Secretary General is the king of the world, to whom all Presidents and leaders must bow, instead of a harried diplomat trying to keep delegates from getting into fistfights on the General Assembly floor.
ReplyDeleteHe also does card tricks and knows how to make balloon animals. I don't know if he does birthday parties.
ReplyDeleteThe irony here for you here, Doxxer JennofArk, is that in your whole long diatribe, you never once acknowledge any wrongdoing by Obama, his Administration, Democrats, the Left, or any of the parties involved in any of the scandals. You're incapable of it. You're like a Stockholme Syndrome victim that's still in the total denial stage, at least that's the act you play on the Internet. The truth is, you're not really that stupid.
ReplyDeleteDA, try to wean yourself from your dependency on me. Until you do, you can never grow as a person.
ReplyDeleteVery few. Certainly not enough to have made it worth it to look at that many posts.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how wing-nuts don't recognize a slippery slope when it's not a fallacy.
What wrongdoing Denny. Something real and not right wing b.s.
ReplyDeleteScrotoku, I choose you!
ReplyDeleteWhy not do what I do, and wallow in the schadenfreude? After all, she's having to point out that she shouldn't be overriding the judgment of medical professionals in this matter.
ReplyDeleteComing from the spiritual dwarf of Midlothian, VA, that's pretty funny.
ReplyDeleteDon't ask him to specify, he's just repeating what they told him on Fox News.
ReplyDeleteGee, I wonder who took the time to go through and downvote every post I made in this thread? It couldn't be some principled wingnut who's just here to prove how much smarter and more mature than us he is, definitely not.
ReplyDeleteProjecting again, DA.
ReplyDeleteWith you, it's always projection.
Obama's agenda intentions going forward have been severely hampered. Keep apologizing for him and blaming Republicans, because its such a great argument for you, but Obama has no one to blame but himself. Incompetence and bad luck are poor excuses, though. So is 'Scandal? What scandals?'
ReplyDeleteThat's funny, coming from the guy who stalked me when I posted on The Underground Bunker, telling me to GAFL because I was being helpful to a commentator there.
ReplyDeleteHave a good hour, cowboi, and let me extend my deepest sympathies about getting your comments deleted at No More Mr. Nice Blog. Another conservative, gagged from proclaiming the truth.
Like gocart says, what wrongdoing? What laws were broken? None, you say? Then kind of hard to see where the "scandal" is, since no laws were broken - or interns penetrated.
ReplyDeleteI guess we should just respect the decisions of others. If thats what will make them happy then let it be.
ReplyDelete____________________________________
christchurch kickboxing
No scandals, Doxxer JennofArk?
ReplyDeleteThen what are you all yammering on about endlessly for these past few weeks? If it wasn't scandals, then why not just move on with you life selling trinkets to overweight white trash yahoos that you despise so much but don't mind making your livelihood off of their kindness.