tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post3461986928915215930..comments2023-12-23T16:22:22.290-05:00Comments on alicublog: roy edrosohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15161980502027888634noreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-18804305986560232412012-12-13T10:27:23.180-05:002012-12-13T10:27:23.180-05:00Shorter wingnut blogosphere: OUR GUY WON SHUT UP S...Shorter wingnut blogosphere: OUR GUY WON SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHalloween_Jacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-78742702538932413962012-12-13T10:27:22.203-05:002012-12-13T10:27:22.203-05:00Instead of whining about fact checkers, why not tr...Instead of whining about fact checkers, why not try sticking a little closer to the truth? Sure, actual honesty is out of the question, but they could at least try to fake it.synykylnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-26462401305539448382012-12-13T10:27:21.204-05:002012-12-13T10:27:21.204-05:00I don't believe you.
Win!I don't believe you.<br /><br />Win!GregMcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-63272630407391767022012-12-13T10:27:20.185-05:002012-12-13T10:27:20.185-05:00Wingnut tactics in a nutshell:
If anticipating an...Wingnut tactics in a nutshell:<br /><br />If anticipating an accusation of lying, call the other guy a liar first.<br />If caught lying, double down and/or change the subject.<br /><br />I've been racking my brains for anything else in my own exchanges with 'em, but that's about it.Leeds mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-54316260965626794642012-12-13T10:27:19.169-05:002012-12-13T10:27:19.169-05:00Doesn't he have mustard to fact-check?Doesn't he have mustard to fact-check?zuzunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-81041227338541738112012-12-13T10:27:18.161-05:002012-12-13T10:27:18.161-05:00Journalists? Checking facts? All by themselves?
...Journalists? Checking facts? All by themselves?<br /><br /><br />Sir, what far-off time period are you from?D Johnstonhttp://kingdomofsharks.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-30324941982898869552012-12-13T10:27:17.168-05:002012-12-13T10:27:17.168-05:00The very idea that there should be a separate clas...The very idea that there should be a separate class of people called "fact checkers" is the very worst idea since the invention of ideas. Join me, please, in the time travelthing . . . . It's 44BC: did Caesar really say anything intelligible to Brutus? Was he, perhaps, under the impression that Brutus was being stabbed, tu? . . . . It's 7 December 1941: was the US really "in conversation with its government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific." <br /><br />In my day, you rotten 00ers, we called the people who confronted such issues "journalists" or "fucking normal humans who were alive at the time".GregMcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-39498234125907133692012-12-13T10:27:16.174-05:002012-12-13T10:27:16.174-05:00"The facts all agree I'm an asshole, ther..."The facts all agree I'm an asshole, therefore the facts must be wrong." stick with that message, sir, and you'll go far!Keith Edwardshttp://twitter.com/KEdwardKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-66811602078329543572012-12-13T10:27:15.219-05:002012-12-13T10:27:15.219-05:00Damn it, don't they know that hitting back is ...<i>Damn it, don't they know that hitting back is against the rules?</i><br /><br />Hard to imagine how the goopers could ever get an idea like that.<br />~ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©http://ifthethunderdontgetya.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-44117067816653797102012-12-13T10:27:14.146-05:002012-12-13T10:27:14.146-05:00You know, Sorock (it's not Jacobsen writing th...You know, Sorock (it's not Jacobsen writing this post - F.Y.I.) never actually tries to defend Romney. She's deeply upset that anyone would call Romney a "liar," but not because he's really honest - it's the very notion that one would check the veracity of his statements that's offensive. How dare you not take his on-their-face inaccurate statements as fact?<br /><br /><br />But no, no defense of Romney. A lot of attacks on Obama's people for calling out the lies (which is "propaganda," at least when a Democrat does it) and lines from Sarah Palin, that bastion of honesty.<br /><br /><br />Most of all, she seems upset that anyone would respond to Romney's statements. Damn it, don't they know that hitting back is against the rules?D Johnstonhttp://kingdomofsharks.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-19626622861699456962012-12-13T10:27:13.146-05:002012-12-13T10:27:13.146-05:00oh christ, did you see the Weekly Standard piece t...oh christ, did you see the Weekly Standard piece they linked to as an example of Fact Checker bias? Here's a taste: "An Associated Press “fact check” actually upbraided Ryan for quoting Obama’s “You didn’t build that” comment. Supposedly, Ryan didn’t understand the rhetorical context. What that has to do with facts went unexplained." Indeed, what the hell could context ever do with the factual meaning of a quote? You've got the truncated quote - that's a fact, and the context - that's some other fact, Honest Paul Ryan chooses the facts he needs; what more would you have him do "Fact Checkers"?!trizzlornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-11840562889745368482012-12-13T10:27:12.159-05:002012-12-13T10:27:12.159-05:00Indeed. There's been a lot of well-deserved cr...Indeed. There's been a lot of well-deserved criticism of the "fact-checking" trend - the widespread Broderism, the fact that they're only necessary because journalists aren't willing to call anything a "lie" anymore. But boy, you get a fabulist like Romney on stage, and suddenly people are glad that there's a whole class of journalists ready to dive into the bullshit.<br /><br /><br />Note, by the way, that Col. Mustard isn't defending Romney's bullshit. He just hates the fact that people can smell it.D Johnstonhttp://kingdomofsharks.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-41079074850762181042012-12-13T10:27:11.209-05:002012-12-13T10:27:11.209-05:00Perhaps as on of the independent voters who remain...Perhaps as on of the independent voters who remains undecided in this contest, I can help shed a little light on the fact-check phenomena of which you speak.<br /><br /><br />Unfortunately, the pertinent fact is that both candidates are country club Republicans who can, if elected , be counted on to do whatever necessary to make their country club brethren happy, which mostly consists of rigging the system to make them more wealthy with less need to actually be good at anything. The latter is an important point as the country club ages and fortunes must inevitably be turned over to retard grand sons. That's why Obama publicly agreed with just about everything Romney said. <br /><br /><br />Anyway, the main difference between Obama and Romney is that they have to fool different constituencies which they despise, and which would despise the "real" Obama or Romney. Obama has to fool the earnest liberal who cares about his or her fellow citizens. Romney has to fool the sociopathic morons that hate anyone the least bit different. More to the point, the people Obama has to fool like facts. The people Romney has to fool hate facts. Thus, we get the apparent disconnect on the merits of fact checking. <br /><br /><br />Ha ha, and if you think I was harsh on Obama's crash and burn and spew foul smelling odor over half the world, you should check out Kevin Baker at <a href="http://www.harpers.org/archive/2012/10/hbc-90008926" rel="nofollow">Harper's</a> blog:<br /><br /><br />"Maybe he really is a secret Muslim terrorist from Kenya.I mean, think about it. He runs for president as a populist, soaking up all the liberal energy for change in the country. Once in power, he surrounds himself with failed conservative advisers, and squanders most of his mandate. Then, just as it looks as if he will still be able to defeat his clueless Republican opponent, he turns in the worst performance any presidential candidate has ever given in a general-election debate, tanking the race and turning the country over to a party of fanatical Ayn Rand acolytes and warmongers.Homeland’s Abu Nazir never dreamed up anything this diabolical.I know, it’s not very funny. Neither was Barack Obama’s noneffort last night. Nor am I joking about his performance being the worst in the history of presidential debates. In fact, it was the worst debate by any candidate in either the presidentialor the vice-presidential debates. And I include Dan Quayle’s performance in 1988, and that poor, befuddled admiral who was running with Ross Perot."Sad thing is, I think we're both going too easy on Obama's performance. Of course I only watched about 45 seconds of it, but it was that horrific. Plus my wife, who is not at all like me in these matters, was severely pissed at Obama. When he fails someone like her, he truly and egregiously fails.chucklingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-64779856763268957422012-12-13T10:27:10.177-05:002012-12-13T10:27:10.177-05:00So why are you undecided? Even if they are both ne...So why are you undecided? Even if they are both nearly the same the implications of that are that on some metric they are slightly different. Your choices are perfectly straightforward: vote or don't. Choose between two different candidates whose policy positions don't wholly reflect your own or don't bother. But why pretend to be undecided? Do you not know what your own policy preferences are? Do you not know that there are some (to you small) differences between the candidates? What strange notion of ego makes you trumpet your inability to make your own choice? Do you think it makes you sound more judicious? Because to me you just sound like an absolute fool.aimainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-88534541715196057162012-12-13T10:27:09.194-05:002012-12-13T10:27:09.194-05:00Nor am I joking about his performance being the wo...<i><br />Nor am I joking about his performance being the worst in the history of presidential debates.</i><br /><br /><br />You, and he, are dancing on the grave of someone who's coughed a couple of times in your earshot. It's ludicrous.Halloween_Jacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-38269632813688041252012-12-13T10:27:07.162-05:002012-12-13T10:27:07.162-05:00Ya Addicting Info was talking about that today - C...Ya Addicting Info was talking about that today - CNN is trying to out faux faux news - Obama claimed job growth last 30 months (true) but they went ahead and fact checked him for 45 months - tallying in the huge losses under Bush.Doug Alderhttp://www.thealders.net/blogsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-9114765155341993822012-12-13T10:27:06.183-05:002012-12-13T10:27:06.183-05:00Sorry Bub, I never follow links from strangers.Sorry Bub, I never follow links from strangers.chucklingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-47022461825454278282012-12-13T10:27:05.148-05:002012-12-13T10:27:05.148-05:00Whaddaya mean strangers? We've cyberknown each...Whaddaya mean strangers? We've cyberknown each other for years! Anyway, Roy has a link there too. It wasn't meant as a brush-off, by the way. Just something I thought might interest you.Leeds mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-72881982383489323662012-12-13T10:27:03.117-05:002012-12-13T10:27:03.117-05:00I find this comment somehow very telling. As if t...I find this comment somehow very telling. As if this Jacobson fellow Sorock lassie(?) can't possibly imagine a way a number of different actors could come to a consensus without them all reading off of the same script.<br /><br />P.S. Self-correcting blog-o-sphere FTW!bourbakinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-71193327813326850992012-12-13T10:27:02.168-05:002012-12-13T10:27:02.168-05:00Yeah, but does he have a cool avatar like chucking...Yeah, but does he have a cool avatar like chucking does, huh, huh, huh?The Dark Avengernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-19358138823548524132012-12-13T10:27:01.159-05:002012-12-13T10:27:01.159-05:00Even Noam Chomsky said he'd vote Obama in a sw...Even Noam Chomsky said he'd vote Obama in a swing state. Obama is the lesser evil, and in this case the greater evil is terrifying.KatWillownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-12882119498149734922012-12-13T10:27:00.135-05:002012-12-13T10:27:00.135-05:00Excuse me, but...that "worst debate performan...Excuse me, but...that "worst debate performance" in history stuff is just patent bullshit. <br /><br /><br />I understand that all the talking heads are calling it for Rmoney because he was hyperkinetic, while Obama seemed to be sleepwalking. But in point of fact, Obama actually answered questions and answered them truthfully and in detail. So he wasn't as peppy as Rmoney. Big deal. I'd wager that many of those watching weren't all that taken with Rmoney's glib, fast-talking salesman routine. It's not as if he came off more sincere or honest than the president, because he didn't - he just seemed more energetic, perhaps the result of having tried caffeine for the first time in his life, maybe because a new super-charged battery pack had been installed, or whatever.<br /><br /><br />Here's what Obama accomplished with that "worst debate performance" in history: he got Rmoney to own his plan to voucherize Medicare. True, Rmoney never out and out said "I'm going to voucherize Medicare," but that just added to the general impression of lying, fast-talking salesman he created throughout. He was forced to say "my plan won't change anything for anyone <i>over the age of 55</i>," and if you think everyone under 55 didn't notice that, think again. Second - he forced Rmoney to change positions yet again on taxes, on his budget priorities, etc. I often fall into the trap of assuming that other people are rational human beings, but in point of fact many of them are, and they must have noticed, as I did, that whenever Rmoney's budget assumptions were called into question, he wasn't able to elaborate on why Obama was wrong; he just reverted to repeating what he'd already said. Those of us who are rational recognize that as a hallmark of someone who's not being fully honest, because people who are fully honest can explain their agendas and don't have to fall back on repeating the same talking points over and over again. He might as well have said, "because I SAID SO, that's why!" and rational people don't accept that as a real answer. Third, if there's one thing we know, it's that the more people see of Mitt Romney, the less they like him. Giving him free rein to lie his ass off for an hour and a half perhaps should not be seen as a losing strategy in that context - trading a one or two day news cycle for more opportunities to relentlessly pound him for the next month maybe isn't all that bad of a trade-off. The lies Rmoney told Wednesday night are already coming back to haunt him, and I wouldn't be surprised to see ghosts of the debate past show up in the next two and give him a severe bitch-slapping.<br /><br /><br />So yes, not Obama's best performance by a long shot, but not "the sky is falling!" either. Perspective, people. Get some.JennOfArknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-11946467756172511012012-12-13T10:26:59.137-05:002012-12-13T10:26:59.137-05:00Yes, Facts, truth, common sense... they all pull l...Yes, Facts, truth, common sense... they all pull liberal.KatWillownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-17756282155076827032012-12-13T10:26:58.128-05:002012-12-13T10:26:58.128-05:00Obama gave a bad performance but did it ever occur...Obama gave a bad performance but did it ever occur to you that someone as good as Obama at debating and strategy/tactics might have done that for a good reason? The Democrats now have an absolute wealth of material they can use (and have already started using) in commercials that show Romney flip flopping mere days rather than weeks or months apart - THey now have tons of lies told on stage in a presidential debate that allow them to say - see if you can't trust him to tell you the truth here why would you in the oval office.Doug Alderhttp://www.thealders.net/blogsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5191252.post-22248704251064991992012-12-13T10:26:57.138-05:002012-12-13T10:26:57.138-05:00Ah, well then. A principled progressive who just c...Ah, well then. A principled progressive who just can't see the difference between the two candidates. I suggest you take your list of complaints and write them down on a big sheet of paper. Next, fold that paper until it's all sharp corners and then shove it up your ass.eohippusnoreply@blogger.com