Wednesday, June 25, 2014

IT WAS ME WHO PROVOKED THE FATAL BARRAGE OF T-SHIRTS... BUT LET'S NOT PLAY THE BLAME GAME!

A Jonah Goldberg column called "The Liberal Blame Game on Iraq"? How could I miss it?
The Atlantic’s James Fallows says Dick Cheney and company “have earned the right not to be listened to.” Slate magazine’s Jamelle Bouie says that prominent public intellectuals and journalists who supported the Iraq war should “be barred from public comment.” Charles Pierce at Esquire is less subtle: “Shut up, all of you. Go away.”... 
I’m always curious what agency in a free society is in charge of enforcing prohibitions on such things.
Shriek, wail, I'm being censored.
Given the tendency for nearly everyone to get things wrong over time, this is a dangerous game. Vanden Heuvel has been wrong about so many things, it’s difficult to know where to begin. She opposed pretty much the warp and woof of America’s Cold War policies. She opposed Bill Clinton’s war in the Balkans. She opposed the Persian Gulf War. 
Fallows made a name for himself in the 1980s and ’90s championing the notion that Japan Inc. would overtake the United States. Shall we stop listening to him on economic issues?
Similarly, this guy thought Avatar was going to win Best Picture, while Jonah pushed America into the hellmouth that is Iraq. Everybody makes mistakes!

There's more, but who cares.

UPDATE. Oh, all right:
I supported the war, and I still think the arguments in favor at the time were superior to the arguments against. Alas, the facts on the ground didn’t care about the arguments.
Stupid facts! Farrrrrt.

UPDATE 2. Oh wait, oh wait, oh wait:
If postwar Iraq grew into a stable, confident nation progressing toward a lawful, decent society, I’ve argued, then someday in the future the mistake might look like a success.
I don't even have to write punchlines for him anymore. Or farts!

119 comments:

  1. TGuerrant4:46 PM

    T'was I! T'was I!

    ReplyDelete
  2. coozledad4:53 PM

    I’m always curious what agency in a free society is in charge of enforcing prohibitions on such things.



    Your conscience, if you had one, you god-damned bag of shit dirt.

    ReplyDelete
  3. waspuppet4:53 PM

    I used to work with someone who would breathlessly proclaim that The Big Boss was retiring about once a year. 14 years later, he did. I won't exactly say that she triumphantly paraded around the office saying "I told you," but she certainly acted like someone who had had inside knowledge. I can only guess what Little Jonah, age 7, will do the day that the decades-long civil war ends with Iraq broken up into three countries and the one that keeps the name "Iraq" is peaceful and stable (albeit a homogeneous theocracy).

    ReplyDelete
  4. Christopher Hazell5:10 PM

    Here's the thing; it's not just that people like Cheney were wrong, it's also that they openly mocked anybody who predicted we'd need to have US troops fighting in Iraq in the year of our lord 2014.

    What they're now calling for is exactly what they told us wouldn't happen, because it would be bad and they wouldn't let it happen.

    ReplyDelete
  5. gocart mozart5:11 PM

    Shorter Pantload: "If all the facts were different, I would be right and you dirty hippies would be sorry."

    ReplyDelete
  6. montag25:12 PM

    Hmm, I don't recall Fallows' musings on Japan precipitating wholesale death and destruction. Does that count as "facts on the ground," bloodthirsty moron?


    I guess we now know for sure that Goldberg's legacy status will remain secure at NRO into the far future, because if they haven't fired him after that undeniably lame (and stupid, goes without saying) excuse, they never will.


    Gawd, he's a puke-inducing little whore to war criminals.

    ReplyDelete
  7. It's not just that Team Chickenhawk openly mocked people who disagreed with them, they accused Iraq war opponents of treason.
    ~

    ReplyDelete
  8. gocart mozart5:12 PM

    If Iraq is a stable democracy in 30 years, Jonah will claim he was proven right.

    ReplyDelete
  9. This is yet another one of those situations where Jonah comes so close to a breakthrough, and just falls short. He's one turn away from the proper conclusion: "Hey, maybe these guys are talking about personal and social conscience, and not actually calling for tyranny against anyone." But he takes a wrong turn at Good Job Junction and ends up at "Nah, they're just dumb tyrants Faaart."


    Hypothesis: Jonah isn't stupid. He's merely opting not to think.

    ReplyDelete
  10. NSA: no such agency.

    ReplyDelete
  11. montag25:45 PM

    That was slimy enough, but then he had to beg off doing any of the fighting himself--too old (35), baby daughter, would have to take a pay cut. Shit, there were National Guard people in both theaters in their 50s, and with the stop-loss in place, you can bet a bunch of them took some pretty heavy hits to the paycheck for a good long while.

    Y'know, I think back on Dashiell Hammett--hell, he was a disabled vet from WWI and he still enlisted--again--in 1942, at the age of 48. `Course, the first difference between Hammett and Der Pantload was that Hammett could write. The second was that Hammett was a socialist and was willing to fight against fascists, while Der Pantload writes propaganda for fascists.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Spaghetti Lee5:50 PM

    Given the tendency for nearly everyone to get things wrong over time, this is a dangerous game.


    Yes, but Jonah, you and your peers are the ones who get everything wrong over time. Subtle but important difference.

    ReplyDelete
  13. montag25:51 PM

    You give him entirely too much credit.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Spaghetti Lee5:52 PM

    If postwar Iraq grew into a stable, confident nation progressing toward a
    lawful, decent society, I’ve argued, then someday in the future the
    mistake might look like a success.



    If wishes were cheetos, then Pantloads would thrive.

    ReplyDelete
  15. sharculese5:52 PM

    The logical follow up to 'given that everyone is sometimes wrong' is 'why are people insistent only in this case that the people who were wrong shut the fuck up?'


    But Jonah can't say that because it would give away the game.

    ReplyDelete
  16. brandonrg5:57 PM

    Jesus but that is an incredible amount of dumb, even by Jonah standards, packed into one post.

    ReplyDelete
  17. mgmonklewis6:00 PM

    Poor Jonah was doomed by both Nature and Nurture in that regard.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Ellis_Weiner6:00 PM

    Are you, asshole? "Always curious"? Oh, wait, I see: it's sarcasm, of the I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I school of third grade comebacks. And, since there is no agency in charge of enforcing the silence of the PNAC warmongers and profiteers, we should listen to them opine (or lie) about the same thing?

    You first, Jonah. But if a doctor diagnosed you with athlete's foot, and it turned out to be gangrene and the foot had to be amputated, would you seek out his counsel about the other foot? Okay, *you* would, if he had connections to the American Enterprise Institute. But would anyone else? Think carefully before you reply.

    ReplyDelete
  19. mgmonklewis6:03 PM

    I would like to spend the afternoon at the steampunk exhibition at the Royal Observatory Greenwich with this comment.
    http://www.theguardian.com/science/the-h-word/2014/apr/10/steampunk-royal-observatory-greenwich-science-history

    ReplyDelete
  20. i've provided a visual representation of the quoted passage below, in case anyone needed further explanation.

    ReplyDelete
  21. coozledad6:05 PM

    it turned out to be gangrene and the foot had to be amputated

    Jonah: The arguments for athlete's foot are still better. You don't like the smell of rotting flesh? Try this: farrrrt.

    ReplyDelete
  22. FMguru6:07 PM

    That second update...it belongs right up there with Dan Quayle's "I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change" and Criswell's "We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are
    going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future
    events such as these will affect you in the future."

    ReplyDelete
  23. Pope Zebbidie XIII6:10 PM

    Star Trek theme plays.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Jay B.6:13 PM

    I supported the war, and I still think the arguments in favor at the time were superior to the arguments against. Alas, the facts on the ground didn’t care about the arguments.


    I feel like I'm having a stroke, because I honestly can't process just how stupid this thinking is. What does he think "arguments" are for? How can an argument that's been proven false STILL be superior? And does he really not piece together the anticipated "facts on the ground" generated a lot of the arguments on the anti-war side? The much shorter way to do this — Your argument that democracy would flourish after we wiped out the political, military and physical infrastructure of a bitterly divided country was, on its face, stupid. Facts on the ground have proven this to be true. Which is what a lot of people argued at the time.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Pope Zebbidie XIII6:16 PM

    We sent Iraq to military school to become stable and confident and all it did was grow its beard.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Pope Zebbidie XIII6:18 PM

    Not to mention delusional mental illness (thanks for the tips Iosif Vissarionovich)

    ReplyDelete
  27. Gromet6:21 PM

    "I still think the argument based on lies and fantasy was superior to the argument based on what turned out to be the actual facts." That might be the funniest thing I've read this century. You could give that line to a character in a 1970s Alan Pakula film and people would be quoting it today.

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  28. montag26:21 PM

    You've a stronger stomach than I. I'd rather whack myself on the head with a ball-peen hammer twenty or thirty times than try to parse Doughy's drivel.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Pope Zebbidie XIII6:21 PM

    Work or evil?

    ReplyDelete
  30. Scott Lemieux6:22 PM

    Amazingly, this may not be the dumbest thing published at NRO today. If you think that health insurance should not only be available to poor people and cover things, that means that everyone should have to live in the same city and eat the same food. (And he botches the idiot wingnut slippery slope argument by not even making the uniform food broccoli! Jonah would never make that mistake, presumably because he wouldn't eat broccoli if it was smothered in chocolate sauce.)

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  31. Maybe the lesson here isn't that the culture is banning "dissent," as
    Cotts and Talbot believe. Maybe the culture has concluded - in the
    context of 6,000 murdered Americans and a war on the horizon - that
    frivolous, irresponsible or just plain stupid criticism will not have
    the popular currency it did just a month ago. To me, that's progress,
    not



    censorship.


    --Jonah Goldberg.

    ReplyDelete
  32. montag26:25 PM

    Especially if that character happened to be Bob Woodward.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Remind us again why this pinhead Goldberg is even noticed. Oh, wait, because of his mommy wasn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  34. tacitus voltaire6:30 PM

    someday it will be revealed that jonah goldberg is really steven colbert

    ReplyDelete
  35. montag26:32 PM

    That's our Jonah--always plumbing new depths.

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  36. Anthony_McCarthy6:35 PM

    The only way to get the neo-con and their asociated cons out of the American discussion is to marginalize the DC-NYC-Atlanta based media that made them what they were and sold their wars of imperial conquest for them. The corporate media will not change, you've got to change medias.


    Oh, and go hell with NPR.

    ReplyDelete
  37. coozledad6:35 PM

    Which is what a lot of people argued at the time.
    In a climate of fear, bullshit nationalistic fervor and constant insinuations that repercussions would ultimately follow. In the meantime the hawks were eating marshmallows out of each other's asses and congratulating themselves on being men.
    He's bitching about nobody wanting to hear his shit? He ought to be thanking his god nobody's slipped behind him and garroted his useless ass.

    ReplyDelete
  38. I regret only that I have but one upvote to give to this comment.

    ReplyDelete
  39. It's a variant on the classic McArdle Logic Dodge: "Just because things turned out the way you predicted and not the way I predicted, doesn't necessarily mean that you were right and I was wrong."

    ReplyDelete
  40. XeckyGilchrist7:00 PM

    Oops, beat me to that.

    ReplyDelete
  41. sharculese7:03 PM

    Yeah, but the whole thing seems to be premised on the assumption that everyone in the country is required to get on the same health plan, together.


    It's like the only thing Kevin Williamson knows about Obamacare is that his paycheck depends on saying it sucks.

    ReplyDelete
  42. sharculese7:04 PM

    All I'm gonna say is that thinking the future has the ability to change the past got Marty McFly into more than a little bit of trouble.

    ReplyDelete
  43. tigrismus7:05 PM

    Christ, what an asshole.

    ReplyDelete
  44. tigrismus7:11 PM

    "I've always believed that just because you have the right to say something doesn't mean you should say it."

    Jesus God, the man who published a whole book about how people who disagreed with him were Nazis is going to teach us mannerly discourse. I DIE.

    ReplyDelete
  45. FlipYrWhig7:17 PM

    That would account for all the demonstrable signs of plumbism.

    ReplyDelete
  46. sharculese7:42 PM

    Because a book laying out in pseudo-academic terms why liberals are such jerks was a thing with actual value to wingnuts.

    ReplyDelete
  47. How fortunate for history that the Loadpant's publishers stood up to that mean old agency.

    ReplyDelete
  48. gratuitous7:49 PM

    Jonah says we're not 'posta remember that.

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  49. cleter8:16 PM

    The future has the ability to change the past. Wow.
    That sounds like something William Shatner would super-emote in a particularly silly Star Trek episode. "The future...Has. The. Ability. To CHANGE!...the ...past...."

    ReplyDelete
  50. satch8:17 PM

    "Why, any large ship, left at sea for enough time, would eventually suffer structural failures and sink."

    Actually, that is exactly what Dick Cheney is counting on when, in his comeback "Fleece The Rubes Tour", he insists that:

    "I think there will be another attack and the next time I think it’s likely to be far deadlier than the last one."


    It is conceivable that, in, say, the next fifty years, America will be hit by some sort of terrorist attack, an attack that even President Tag Romney couldn't prevent. Of course, Cheney doesn't actually care about doing anything that might help prevent it, he just wants to be able to poke a rotting hand with its thumb up through the dirt over his grave in a "See, I TOLD you so!" gesture.

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  51. RHWombat8:37 PM

    Yes.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Are you, asshole? "Always curious"?

    Actually, he's not. He outsources that function to his highly-unpaid Research Staff, a/k/a his readers. "Hey, gang, I'm thinking of writing an important piece, but it requires curiosity and intelligence. Anyone out there have some that they could send me?"

    ReplyDelete
  53. Of course, given that his readers (outside of Mr. Edroso, of course) have the collective IQ of a bed of kelp, it seems unlikely his plea (bleg? I dunno) will be successful.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Smarter than Your Average Bear8:41 PM

    Jonah isn't stupid. He's merely opting not to think.


    ya along the same lines as gays opt to be gay

    ReplyDelete
  55. News Nag8:43 PM

    Alas, reality won!!!! Whoever could have imagined????

    Also, "I’m always curious what agency in a free society is in charge of enforcing prohibitions on such things."

    Good question. Let's ask the Dixie Chicks and everybody Andrew Sullivan and Beinart, et al were lambasting to hell and back what agency is in charge of such things. Let's ask Phil Donahue while we're at it.

    ReplyDelete
  56. JennOfArk8:47 PM

    "If postwar Iraq grew into a stable, confident nation progressing toward a lawful, decent society, I’ve argued, then someday in the future the mistake might look like a success."



    And if your mom was your dad, she'd have balls. Oh...wait....your mom is....

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  57. I disagree. Dipshits like JoBerg were wrong. People like Cheney were deliberately, and with great care lying like damned rugs.

    ReplyDelete
  58. JennOfArk9:00 PM

    Whoops. Posted before reading. Though I said "balls" instead of "dick" and "mom and dad" instead of "aunt and uncle".

    ReplyDelete
  59. KatWillow9:01 PM

    Yeah, it would have been a great idea if only it had worked!

    ReplyDelete
  60. LollyBee9:02 PM

    It's another version of reality having a liberal bias.

    In Jonah's world, argument is always purely ideological, and his ideology, being morally superior, always deserves to win arguments.

    I don't see any acknowledgement of the role of knowledge or logic in determining one's position.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Let me help:
    I supported the war, and [since] the arguments in favor at the time [were made by conservatives I think they] were superior to the arguments against [because they were made by icky liberals]. Alas, the facts on the
    ground [weren't slavishly devoted to following the dictates of the conservatives].

    ReplyDelete
  62. JennOfArk9:06 PM

    "I supported the war, and I still think the arguments in favor at the time were superior to the arguments against. Alas, the facts on the ground didn’t care about the arguments."



    Holy shit. He's fucking admitting that he still prefers the lies that were paraded around as a cassus belli to the "facts on the ground" that proved that the "case for war" was a tissue of lies. I mean, what the fuck else can those two sentences possibly mean? "I think the arguments in favor at the time were superior to the arguments against" presumably includes the argument against that every bit of their case for war was made-up bullshit. So translated into normal language, that's "I prefer to have smoke blown up my ass and get punk'd to knowing, believing, and accepting true facts."


    Ok, I gotta go over there...

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  63. Alas, the facts on the ground didn’t care about the arguments.

    Alas, what gas this ass must pass.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Surreal American9:14 PM

    In an earlier age, it would have been said that Dick Cheney and co.had earned the right not to be heeded. This would have prevented* gobshites like Jonah Goldberg from intentionally, if not skillfully, clouding the issue with pointless inanities.


    *No, not really, but let's pretend it would have, ok?

    ReplyDelete
  65. And that in turn is a variant of the classic GOP Everything Especially Election Results Reality Dodge.

    Thing is, Jonah isn't an original thinker and he's lazy as fuck. But he does have the special ability to take dumb ideas and make them so incredibly moronic that you don't recognize it and assume he came up with it on his own.

    ReplyDelete
  66. The Atlantic’s James Fallows says Dick Cheney and company “have earned the right not to be listened to.”

    More to the point, Dick Cheney has the right to remain silent.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Derelict9:22 PM

    Could it be that Cheney is so confident of another horrendous attack because one of his companies is selling the terrorists the technology and/or training?

    ReplyDelete
  68. No shit. As our host said: "There's more, but who cares."

    ReplyDelete
  69. Derelict9:26 PM

    I have to add Goldberg's grave to my deface-a-tombstone tour. And THIS ^^ is what I'll chisel on his with my battery-powered Dremel,

    ReplyDelete
  70. Actually events that happen stay happened and can't unhappen.

    However, I can see why this yutz likes to think that future actions can create a do over of the past. Maybe he thinks that one day in the future he'll write a column that is so perfect in every way that it will make up for the 11,000,000,000 plotzpiles he churned out in the past.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Derelict9:37 PM

    Our logic is sound, if you ignore that it always fails in actual application.


    Our logic is sound, if you ignore that it always fails even in thought experiments.

    ReplyDelete
  72. tigrismus9:42 PM

    Please post dex's jackpot Jonah quote if you do.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Derelict9:43 PM

    I'm willing to give them a mulligan, provided they acknowledge they fucked up. If they don't, they're not trustworthy going forward because a.) too stubborn to admit being wrong (thus putting their pride ahead of any enterprise we might be involved in), or 2.) too stupid to even recognize how badly they fucked up.

    ReplyDelete
  74. montag210:04 PM

    With those odds, what are his chances of even one good one? Like the man said, character is fate.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person10:30 PM

    See, that's one problem at the core of the Conservative psyche. They never grow up far enough to stop crying out (quietly, so no one else will hear) "Daddy, Daddy, make it didn't happen!"

    ReplyDelete
  76. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person10:31 PM

    Fascinating...






    Well, somebody had to!

    ReplyDelete
  77. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person10:32 PM

    Another in a seemingly endless series of Blowjobs That Should Have Been...

    ReplyDelete
  78. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person10:48 PM

    That's basically it. And I think the silly thought-experiment-like construction was in support of one sentence:

    But sending millions of people into the health-insurance market will
    have a negligible effect
    on prices, market structure, or incentives?
    Right?


    Which leaves out the one thing Conservatives--and probably some not-so-Conservatives--want to get out there without actually saying it. What happens when all *those* people are clogging up *our* waiting rooms, and making *our* appointments harder to get. That they have enough restraint not to say it right out loud is nice, but I bet someone does before too long. It's gotta be awful hard to hold in one like that. Right Jonah?

    ReplyDelete
  79. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person10:51 PM

    Well to be fair, he's not actually writing that shit for us, now is he? What we have here is yet another person who can't write, "writing" for people who can't read.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person10:53 PM

    There is both a quantitative and qualitative difference between getting things wrong over time, and getting things wrong time after time...

    ReplyDelete
  81. Meanie-meanie, tickle a person11:03 PM

    That's gotta be about the worst way to go I could think of. Except I couldn't think of it...

    ReplyDelete
  82. montag211:15 PM

    The quite amazing thing is that Doughy dredged this up from his umbrage at the non-mentally-challenged arguing about all the usual suspects crawling out of the woodwork the moment there was even a tiny chance to start up the bloodshed again.

    Normal people are infuriated that every goddamned one of the biggest liars on the planet are trying to do it again. Even Elliott Abrams crawled out of the hole he's been hiding in to push his "OMG, they're going to kill us all!" routine. So, the predominant question among sane people is: why do these monsters have any right to be heard after the way they blatantly lied in the past?

    A completely rational question--except to Der Pantload, who seems to think that all these criminals have a right to be heard. To young Doughy's dumpling of a mind, these cretins should have a forum no matter how despicably they deceived the country--and the world.

    He really has a lot of damn gall.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Derelict11:20 PM

    Given her dark powers, maybe.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Derelict11:26 PM

    Look, I'm sure you've done something like ordered a dish that you knew would give you heartburn. Well, that was a mistake. And since it was a mistake, it's EXACTLY LIKE lying your country into war.

    See? No difference or daylight between the two. Except for all the dead, wounded, maimed, and orphaned.

    ReplyDelete
  85. I doubt that Dick Cheney gives a shit about what Jonah Goldberg says, so sucking on Cheney's shriveled dick (haw!) isn't going to get Jonah an invite from the Great Man for a tête-à-tête inside the man-sized safe. Still, a boy can dream, can't he?

    For that matter, I doubt James Fallows cares much, either.

    ReplyDelete
  86. You have to wonder when (or if) the LA Times will realize he's a fucking idiot and bag his ass.

    ReplyDelete
  87. I think you hit it, D. Jonah should be writing for the alternative press in Ankh-Morpork.

    ReplyDelete
  88. montag27:54 AM

    M'self, I think they hired him because he's a fucking idiot.

    Call it the Fred Hiatt Syndrome.

    ReplyDelete
  89. As a power-tool salesman at Lowe's who tends to push the corded models because most work is done indoors and, hey! affordability!, I support your decision to spend the extra fifty bucks for the battery-powered model.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Sad but possibly true.

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  91. Emily688:02 AM

    it's not just that people like Cheney were wrong
    It's that their wrongness caused thousands of people to die.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Present karma can change past karma. The events, they stay evented; the dead people, they stay dead. And when your past karma is as bad as Iraq's, it's gonna take a long damn time.

    ReplyDelete
  93. brandonrg9:33 AM

    The best thing about health insurance is that it's an exclusive good! It'd be like owning a Ferrari, but everyone else owns one too. What's the point if its not about showing off your superiority!?

    ReplyDelete
  94. Halloween_Jack9:35 AM

    It's like the only thing Kevin Williamsonabout every wingnut commenter at every wingnut site knows about Obamacare is that his paycheck depends on saying it sucks.

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  95. Halloween_Jack9:38 AM

    His "argument" boils down to "I'd be Superman if it weren't for all this damn kryptonite", the kryptonite in this case being reality.

    ReplyDelete
  96. tigrismus10:25 AM

    Not just a right to be heard, a right to be listened to. Frankly, nobody's got that as a right, but somebody who's shown himself to be entirely dishonest in the service of a questionable goal doesn't deserve even the courtesy.

    ReplyDelete
  97. XeckyGilchrist10:32 AM

    I could see that. I'm guessing the knowledge that they stood by their stupid to the point of saying everyone who disagreed should die is stopping them from acknowledging it.

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  98. dstatton10:52 AM

    I surprised and disappointed that he didn't quote anything from the tirade by the great Tbogg, who refused to link to anything about Cheney. Censorship!

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  99. Matt Jones11:13 AM

    FAAAAAAAAART

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  100. J Neo Marvin11:19 AM

    This song continues to be relevant.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgJDQ1uqo_Y

    ReplyDelete
  101. redoubtagain11:43 AM

    Besides, history hasn't spoken yet. Crews are still working tirelessly to dredge up the hard caramel engines, the only parts of the ship to survive. If those engines are one day transplanted into a fully functional, fully edible ship in line with Dr. Hoofenpoof's vision, then this mistake might look like a success.
    This paragraph didn't make it into the original, because it was eaten by Jonah.

    ReplyDelete
  102. mortimer200011:52 AM

    It's a fever swamp of every type of nonsense, delusion and sheer bullshit over there. Too much wrongness to even begin. How do you do it?

    ReplyDelete
  103. Personally, I'm glad you're making that point. In my opinion, that point needs to be made over and over.


    The process does matter. The fabrication of the evidence that misled us to war was not an accident. Nobody falls and says "oops! I fabricated evidence!"

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  104. If someone advises you to put your hand on a hot stove and you burn yourself doing it, you should learn two lessons from the experience:


    1. Don't put your hand on a hot stove.


    2. Maybe the next time that person gives you advice, you should think twice before following it.


    This is pretty basic stuff. The phrase "blame game" shouldn't even enter into it.

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  105. nicteis12:34 PM

    Not much else to eat, down there in the belly of the whale.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Geo X1:09 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5zrYie3d0Q&feature=kp

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  107. GoBlue2:23 PM

    And the obligation to.

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  108. Sean Peters3:36 PM

    I helped out :)

    ReplyDelete
  109. "If postwar Iraq grew into a stable, confident nation progressing toward a lawful, decent society, I’ve argued, then someday in the future the mistake might look like a success."


    Which is to say he's only wrong because of how things turned out. In an alternate universe, he would be right.


    So, n'yah, n'yah!

    ReplyDelete
  110. liberalrob6:00 PM

    O...M...G! He really wrote that! Un-fracking-believable!

    That has got to be the top contender for Wanker of the Decade.

    ReplyDelete
  111. liberalrob6:27 PM

    Well, of course. Didn't you see Looper? And Continuum, on the Sci-Fi Channel?

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  112. philadelphialawyer8:21 PM

    James Fallows, et al, at worst, "got it wrong." The neo cons lied. There is a big difference. Anyone's analysis can be off, but lying to support that analysis is something else entirely. Similarly, an argument stands or falls on its own merit, and any claim to the contrary is an ad hominem fallacy. But most statements about policy are NOT pure "arguments." Rather, they are mixed statements of arguments and presentation of facts. And witnesses to facts ARE non fallaciously judged on their track record. Just as a witness can be impeached in court for prior perjury convictions, so a public official or pundit who lied in the past can be tuned out now.

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  113. Ashley Bell8:46 AM

    ....."I supported the war, and I still think the arguments in favor at the time were superior to the arguments against. Alas, the facts on the ground didn’t care about the arguments."
    -
    We wanted a fiction to be fact really really hard and then it wasn't....WHAT HAPPENED!?!?

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  114. CarlWeetabix1:49 PM

    Thousands of Americans killed, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed, millions displaced, a completely destabilized middle east, trillions wasted, war crimes committed, America's reputation permanently tarnished. Who doesn't make mistakes?

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  115. " Alas, the facts on the ground didn’t care about the arguments."



    The Co2 molecule doesn't care about your arguments on climate.


    The ice doesn't care.


    The laws of thermodynamics don't care about your politics.


    What happens to the gop in 15 years?


    They've tied this noose of denialism around their neck, and the laws of physics are going to kick the political bucket for them.

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  116. freq flag8:45 PM

    Gawd, he's a puke-inducing little whore to war criminals.


    The fetus doesn't land far from the birth canal.

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  117. freq flag8:56 PM

    Well, that and a smear of semen preserved in the fabric of a blue dress belonging to a groupie.

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