Only if those people are poor and/or some kind of minority. Sometimes extreme lack of the former will trump the latter, but only for a little while. See also: "the poor we'll always have with us".
Petrochemical companies post record profits, yet rake in billions from Congress in tax breaks and outright grants to continue to seek new sources of oil. Yet still we burn heating oil in the winter! Obviously, we're doing something wrong.
As an aside, I'd like to see Congress require Jamie Dimon to carry a cardboard sign at a freeway on-ramp to obtain his next bonus.
But in a kind of bureaucratic Catch-22, greater oversight would also mean more regulations and soaring enforcement costs, thus redirecting resources away from the very people the programs were meant to help — while still allowing the scam artists to enrich themselves.
Well, really, it would mean diminished profits to the corporations whose officers lecture people on government dependency while raking in millions in bloated salaries and bonuses. And we certainly can't have that.
FWIW, his exemplar, the terrible not-really-homeless-or-shoeless fraudster "has a sad history of refusing help from loved ones and the government." And for all Walsh's hand-wringing, the major beneficiaries of health care fraud are doctors and medical equipment manufacturers, and the major beneficiaries of SS disability are states.
"In all, the cost to the taxpayers is estimated at some $100 billion a year."
Funny, he never mentioned the $350 billion in unpaid taxes for 2011. Wonder who benefited from that? And the ongoing theft perpetrated by corporations and the rich.
Talk about someone having his head up his ass and admiring the view....
Wonder why it is that, in all that talk about fraudulent SS and Medicare recipients, he forgot to mention the governor of Florida, who accounted for more than a billion in fraud all by his lonesome. Or any of the hundreds of corporations servicing the military that bilked (and killed) their clients with no-bid cost+ contracts and shoddy work. Or the military hardware contractors that actively lobby against being audited, resulting in equipment that's over-budget, underperforming, behind schedule and unsafe. Or the tens of thousands of extremely wealthy tax cheats who hide money offshore.
"... soaring enforcement costs...?" C'mon. Additional cost of enforcement is one or two percent of the amount saved--if Republicans in Congress would allow it and pay for it (note that the IRS, for example, during the Bush years, was specifically ordered by Congress to target taxpayers who claimed the EITC, rather than wealthy tax cheats, which wasted enforcement money, because the verifiable fraud rate of that sector was so low).
I'm surprised this asshole wasn't demanding that the city drug-test panhandlers and grifters before anyone could drop a quarter in their tin cups. But, hell, it's the NY Post, so I shouldn't be surprised. Michael Walsh gets a gold star on his report card from Ruprecht Murdoch this month.
The cost of such programs with duplicative and overlapping purposes is eye-opening. The military came in for special scrutiny: over $10 billion on defense-wide business systems every year; $49 billion in military and veterans health services; and at least $76 billion since 2005 in urgent processing systems for the military.
Among the many methods proposed to tell liberals from conservatives, one is the role of luck in life. Liberals are more likely to attribute part of their good fortune to circumstances; conservatives are less likely, preferring to downplay the role of luck.
This leads to some odd conclusions among some conservatives, namely that they are where they are in life is due entirely to merit, and that poor guy over there is where he is entirely due to his lack of merit. Which is why guys like Walsh moan about fraud, because fraud means that for one split second some poor guy scammed a (theoretically smarter, better, etc. etc.) middle class person just like Walsh and was *actually smarter than his betters*, at least in terms of chicanery. That's just *wrong*!
Which is also why they don't seem to moan so much about corporations bilking the military - after all, the government is full of poor people loving moochers in their limited world view, and the corporations are just Taking Back What Is Rightfully Theirs! Hell, if a businessman rooks the rubes to a turn of a few millions, hey, survival of the fittest, man! (It's why they love the Gilded Age so much.) But if a lesser seeks redress in court, they'll scream "tort reform" at the top of their lungs.
I see Walsh uses the David Brooks Method for presenting statistics: Nearly 18 million people — one in 20 Americans — are collecting some $170 billion a year in disability payments, a record high, and the government estimates that fraud and other improper payments account for $25 billion of disability spending over a recent four-year period.
Generously assuming that Walsh isn't lying about his "government estimates" of fraud, that would be $6.25 billion worth of fraud out of a $170 billion program or a rate of about 3.6 percent. Wonder how that stacks up against, say, defense contract fraud and corporate welfare scams? (See Whetstone's comment above.)
BTW, some version of this sentence: By the government's own estimate, fraud and other improper payments ate up $25 billion in disability payments between 2005 and 2009, which originally came from a 2011 CBS news report, can be found all over winger sites, but I can't find that $25 billion number in any government report. In one instance, I found a link to a GAO report regarding fraud that looked at only 20 individual cases but made no estimates of total loss to the program. It's interesting how these numbers get out there.
Posters plastered all over Harlem, the South Bronx, and Bed-Stuy:
"Jeffrey Hilman is wanted for accosting the affluent on the streets of Midtown Manhattan and demanding money for shoes. He is barefoot, but armed with a size gauge and a shoe horn, and must be considered dangerous. If you see him, do not approach or attempt to apprehend. Call the NYPD Shoe Fraud Division at 1-888-hot-clog. By being a good citizen, YOU can help stop this really annoying crime wave."
Me, I tend to get more worked up about large institutions ripping off individuals than about individuals ripping off large institutions. I wonder which activity costs society more?
I was certainly staggered when my employer downsized our little development group from three to one, and I spent four months working 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week. My bonus the next year was two weeks pay. Still haven't recovered yet, although the company's doing well.
It's interesting how these numbers get out there. Well, that's how the conservative media engine works: Facts go in, something almost but not quite entirely unlike honest information comes out.
Wonder why it is that, in all that talk about fraudulent SS and Medicare recipients, he forgot to mention the governor of Florida, who accounted for more than a billion in fraud all by his lonesome 1) Because Florida is far away, and isn't putting any extra Ruprechtgeld in his pocket. 2) Because here's someone he can (pretend to) see everyday, and be disgusted by, and since he's forbidden to burn any orphanages, writing snotty columns will have to do.
Medicare/Medicaid fraud has to be one of the more psychotic conservative talking points, in that no one ever acknowledges who is stealing that money. Over the last few decades, grifting has really become a rich man's game.
Government programs lose some of their revenue to fraud and waste, as we can see from this individual who scams shoes! No commercial enterprise would EVER lose money to fraud, waste, abuse or bad planning!
"over $10 billion on defense-wide business systems every year; $49 billion in military and veterans health services; and at least $76 billion since 2005 in urgent processing systems for the military"
How much you want to bet that the $49B in health services would be their first -- and indeed only -- cutting target?
They don't give a shit who is stealing the money, since they want to eliminate both Medicare and Medicaid. For people's own good, of course, because it will teach them not to be dependent on the government, and they will become upstanding citizens.
Okay, they'll mostly be lying down. Because they'll be dead. But they won't be freeloaders, and they can hold their heads high as....wait, let me come in again.
1. Starve benefits agency of funds while statutorily requiring it to carry out specific functions. 2. Agency is forced to divert funds from modernizing equipment and operations, as well as investigatory forces. 3. Criticize agency for failing to modernize and update while pointing to rising waste, fraud and abuse as excuse to further deprive agency of funds.
This has worked for every federal agency subjected to Republican rule. From the VA ("Oh, only Republicans love the troops!") to the FAA to the FDA, the story is the same.
"Hey... hey, people, there's a guy on the subway... who claims shit about his shoes. Don't be fooled! This obviously ties into government spending! But I'm on to the trickery! Am I right or am I right!?!". - The New York Post. OR Overheard from a ranting loon on the subway and clear evidence that more funding should go to mental health services.
Ironically, most of the fraud is committed not by the patients, but by the providers, who overwhelmingly support or are conservative Republicans. e.g. Gov. Voldemort down in sunny Fla.
Why, I was just reading yesterday that Texas now wants to drug test its welfare recipients. Never mind that the drug testing in Florida found only an infinitesimal number of druggies were getting public money. And especially never mind that the testing program cost millions of dollars more than the state saved. No expense will be spared to assure us that not even one poor person is getting away with something.
Well yeah, Walsh is better at rhetoric, logical sleight of hand, and making a pea disappear from under a shell than he is at actual math and factchecking. Think about what he's more incentivized to learn, both from the Murdoch organization and his own preconceptions.
Same model worked great on public education, and now, the Post Office.
If only there were someone taking the opposite stance from the Republicans, someone who was trying to support public services and infrastructure and fortify them, instead of selling them off to the most well connected bidder.
Like, I dunno, another political party, or something.
The shoe thing really bothers me, because I think holding a gift you give hostage over somebody's behavior is a dick move.
I get vaguely offended when street beggars tell me that they won't spend money I give them on booze or drugs, because frankly, I don't think it's any of my business what they spend money I give them on. When I give people money it's because it's nice to have money and sometimes I have extra.
If you're giving a gift, whether it's to a friend or a stranger, it shouldn't have strings attached.
If you're worried about shoe fraud, give your boots to a shoe charity that does means testing or something. Complaining that you gave something to someone who later turned out to be a jerk is really guache. Complaining that somebody else gave something to a jerk is REALLY out of bounds.
Because I am waiting for a basketball game to start I thought I would bounce to the original article...I made it as far as the following graphs. What a fucking Sociopath.
No doubt you were shocked, shocked to learn that Jeffrey Hillman, the “barefoot beggar” who famously received a free pair of boots from a kindly NYPD cop, turned out to be a scam artist who preys on the kindness of strangers to provide him with an apartment, money and plenty of footwear — as a Post investigation discovered.
That’s right — someone pretending to be in dire straits turns out to be a) not destitute, b) not homeless and c) not shoeless.
But then, Hillman’s just a piker when it comes to the rising culture of sham dependency that is rapidly turning this country from a nation of self-reliant citizens to shuffling pseudo-mendicants and conniving criminals who have one hand extended to collect government largesse while the other is busily picking your pocket.
There is plenty in there to parse, and I feel a little unclean for giving Rupert a hit..."...shocked, shocked..."
Has this Walsh Fellow ever had to attempt to be a credit to his race or even acknowledge the need?
/Rhetorical...Finds soothing personal head shaped dent in WaterTiger's desk and slams my head home. ...
Only if those people are poor and/or some kind of minority. Sometimes extreme lack of the former will trump the latter, but only for a little while. See also: "the poor we'll always have with us".
ReplyDeletePetrochemical companies post record profits, yet rake in billions from Congress in tax breaks and outright grants to continue to seek new sources of oil. Yet still we burn heating oil in the winter! Obviously, we're doing something wrong.
ReplyDeleteAs an aside, I'd like to see Congress require Jamie Dimon to carry a cardboard sign at a freeway on-ramp to obtain his next bonus.
(Actually, this could be the Shorter for the entire conservative movement.)
ReplyDeleteShorter shorter: Stupid fraud.
Shorter shorter shorter: Help!
ReplyDeleteBut in a kind of bureaucratic Catch-22, greater oversight would also mean more regulations and soaring enforcement costs, thus redirecting resources away from the very people the programs were meant to help — while still allowing the scam artists to enrich themselves.
ReplyDeleteWell, really, it would mean diminished profits to the corporations whose officers lecture people on government dependency while raking in millions in bloated salaries and bonuses. And we certainly can't have that.
Shorter shorter shorter shorter: FU
ReplyDeleteNow that looks like the shorter for the entire conservative movement.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, his exemplar, the terrible not-really-homeless-or-shoeless fraudster "has a sad
ReplyDeletehistory of refusing help from loved ones and the government." And for all Walsh's hand-wringing, the major beneficiaries of health care fraud are doctors and medical equipment manufacturers, and the major beneficiaries of SS disability are states.
"In all, the cost to the taxpayers is estimated at some $100 billion a year."
ReplyDeleteFunny, he never mentioned the $350 billion in unpaid taxes for 2011. Wonder who benefited from that? And the ongoing theft perpetrated by corporations and the rich.
Make that "ongoing legalized theft".
ReplyDeleteJesus, can't even read my own links. $373 billion.
ReplyDeleteTalk about someone having his head up his ass and admiring the view....
ReplyDeleteWonder why it is that, in all that talk about fraudulent SS and Medicare recipients, he forgot to mention the governor of Florida, who accounted for more than a billion in fraud all by his lonesome. Or any of the hundreds of corporations servicing the military that bilked (and killed) their clients with no-bid cost+ contracts and shoddy work. Or the military hardware contractors that actively lobby against being audited, resulting in equipment that's over-budget, underperforming, behind schedule and unsafe. Or the tens of thousands of extremely wealthy tax cheats who hide money offshore.
"... soaring enforcement costs...?" C'mon. Additional cost of enforcement is one or two percent of the amount saved--if Republicans in Congress would allow it and pay for it (note that the IRS, for example, during the Bush years, was specifically ordered by Congress to target taxpayers who claimed the EITC, rather than wealthy tax cheats, which wasted enforcement money, because the verifiable fraud rate of that sector was so low).
I'm surprised this asshole wasn't demanding that the city drug-test panhandlers and grifters before anyone could drop a quarter in their tin cups. But, hell, it's the NY Post, so I shouldn't be surprised. Michael Walsh gets a gold star on his report card from Ruprecht Murdoch this month.
Well, not this week at least, he's busy with bread and wine and crucifixion.
ReplyDeleteLonger shorter: Fraud exists, so where's mine?
ReplyDeleteMuch longer shorter: why can't the darkies find real, honest work, like transcribing wingnut talking points?
ReplyDeleteGosh, he's right: the government does waste a lot of money.
ReplyDeleteThe cost of such programs with duplicative and overlapping purposes is eye-opening. The military came in for special scrutiny: over $10 billion on defense-wide business systems every year; $49 billion in military and veterans health services; and at least $76 billion since 2005 in urgent processing systems for the military.
I dare you to piss on that third rail.
I think the J-Man had it right. This jerk is way too worried about the motes in other people's eyes to notice the giant beam in his own.
ReplyDeleteAmong the many methods proposed to tell liberals from conservatives, one is the role of luck in life. Liberals are more likely to attribute part of their good fortune to circumstances; conservatives are less likely, preferring to downplay the role of luck.
ReplyDeleteThis leads to some odd conclusions among some conservatives, namely that they are where they are in life is due entirely to merit, and that poor guy over there is where he is entirely due to his lack of merit. Which is why guys like Walsh moan about fraud, because fraud means that for one split second some poor guy scammed a (theoretically smarter, better, etc. etc.) middle class person just like Walsh and was *actually smarter than his betters*, at least in terms of chicanery. That's just *wrong*!
Which is also why they don't seem to moan so much about corporations bilking the military - after all, the government is full of poor people loving moochers in their limited world view, and the corporations are just Taking Back What Is Rightfully Theirs! Hell, if a businessman rooks the rubes to a turn of a few millions, hey, survival of the fittest, man! (It's why they love the Gilded Age so much.) But if a lesser seeks redress in court, they'll scream "tort reform" at the top of their lungs.
I see Walsh uses the David Brooks Method for presenting statistics: Nearly 18 million people — one in 20 Americans — are collecting some $170 billion a year in disability payments, a record high, and the government estimates that fraud and other improper payments account for $25 billion of disability spending over a recent four-year period.
ReplyDeleteGenerously assuming that Walsh isn't lying about his "government estimates" of fraud, that would be $6.25 billion worth of fraud out of a $170 billion program or a rate of about 3.6 percent. Wonder how that stacks up against, say, defense contract fraud and corporate welfare scams? (See Whetstone's comment above.)
BTW, some version of this sentence: By the government's own estimate, fraud and other improper payments ate up $25 billion in disability payments between 2005 and 2009, which originally came from a 2011 CBS news report, can be found all over winger sites, but I can't find that $25 billion number in any government report. In one instance, I found a link to a GAO report regarding fraud that looked at only 20 individual cases but made no estimates of total loss to the program. It's interesting how these numbers get out there.
"Unpaid overtime" is worth a Google. Didn't see direct numbers for
ReplyDeletethe US, but the figures from the UK and Canada are staggering.
Michael Walsh is gonna be all over this in his next column, we can be sure.
Posters plastered all over Harlem, the South Bronx, and Bed-Stuy:
ReplyDelete"Jeffrey Hilman is wanted for accosting the affluent on the streets of Midtown Manhattan and demanding money for shoes. He is barefoot, but armed with a size gauge and a shoe horn, and must be considered dangerous. If you see him, do not approach or attempt to apprehend. Call the NYPD Shoe Fraud Division at 1-888-hot-clog. By being a good citizen, YOU can help stop this really annoying crime wave."
Me, I tend to get more worked up about large institutions ripping off individuals than about individuals ripping off large institutions. I wonder which activity costs society more?
ReplyDelete[Sigh] No wingnut stipend for me.
(Actually, this could be the Shorter for the entire conservative movement.)
ReplyDeleteHmm. Let's see.
Some green energy money is wasted, therefore funding green energy is stupid.
False rape accusations exist, therefore taking rape accusations seriously is stupid.
Voter fraud exists, therefore letting people vote is stupid.
Yeah, I think you may be on to something here...
I was certainly staggered when my employer downsized our little development group from three to one, and I spent four months working 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week. My bonus the next year was two weeks pay. Still haven't recovered yet, although the company's doing well.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting how these numbers get out there.
ReplyDeleteWell, that's how the conservative media engine works: Facts go in, something almost but not quite entirely unlike honest information comes out.
Wonder why it is that, in all that talk about fraudulent SS and Medicare recipients, he forgot to mention the governor of Florida, who accounted for more than a billion in fraud all by his lonesome
ReplyDelete1) Because Florida is far away, and isn't putting any extra Ruprechtgeld in his pocket.
2) Because here's someone he can (pretend to) see everyday, and be disgusted by, and since he's forbidden to burn any orphanages, writing snotty columns will have to do.
Medicare/Medicaid fraud has to be one of the more psychotic conservative talking points, in that no one ever acknowledges who is stealing that money. Over the last few decades, grifting has really become a rich man's game.
ReplyDeleteGovernment programs lose some of their revenue to fraud and waste, as we can see from this individual who scams shoes! No commercial enterprise would EVER lose money to fraud, waste, abuse or bad planning!
ReplyDelete"over $10 billion on defense-wide business systems every year; $49 billion in military and veterans health services; and at least $76 billion since 2005 in urgent processing systems for the military"
ReplyDeleteHow much you want to bet that the $49B in health services would be their first -- and indeed only -- cutting target?
They don't give a shit who is stealing the money, since they want to eliminate both Medicare and Medicaid. For people's own good, of course, because it will teach them not to be dependent on the government, and they will become upstanding citizens.
ReplyDeleteOkay, they'll mostly be lying down. Because they'll be dead. But they won't be freeloaders, and they can hold their heads high as....wait, let me come in again.
1. Starve benefits agency of funds while statutorily requiring it to carry out specific functions.
ReplyDelete2. Agency is forced to divert funds from modernizing equipment and operations, as well as investigatory forces.
3. Criticize agency for failing to modernize and update while pointing to rising waste, fraud and abuse as excuse to further deprive agency of funds.
This has worked for every federal agency subjected to Republican rule. From the VA ("Oh, only Republicans love the troops!") to the FAA to the FDA, the story is the same.
"Hey... hey, people, there's a guy on the subway... who claims shit about his shoes. Don't be fooled! This obviously ties into government spending! But I'm on to the trickery! Am I right or am I right!?!".
ReplyDelete- The New York Post.
OR
Overheard from a ranting loon on the subway and clear evidence that more funding should go to mental health services.
Bile Acid reflux broke his calculator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment should be engraved on Jeff Skilling's headstone.
ReplyDeleteHe's not dead yet. Engrave it on his actual head.
ReplyDeleteIronically, most of the fraud is committed not by the patients, but by the providers, who overwhelmingly support or are conservative Republicans. e.g. Gov. Voldemort down in sunny Fla.
ReplyDeleteWhy, I was just reading yesterday that Texas now wants to drug test its welfare recipients. Never mind that the drug testing in Florida found only an infinitesimal number of druggies were getting public money. And especially never mind that the testing program cost millions of dollars more than the state saved. No expense will be spared to assure us that not even one poor person is getting away with something.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was gastritis that broke calculators. I am so not hip to them there new fangled calculator diseases
ReplyDeleteBoy, that sure is a prominently placed photo of Hillman that goes with the article. Wonder why.
ReplyDeletealthough the company's doing well.
ReplyDeleteAt least the story has a happy ending then.
Well yeah, Walsh is better at rhetoric, logical sleight of hand, and making a pea disappear from under a shell than he is at actual math and factchecking. Think about what he's more incentivized to learn, both from the Murdoch organization and his own preconceptions.
ReplyDeleteSame model worked great on public education, and now, the Post Office.
ReplyDeleteIf only there were someone taking the opposite stance from the Republicans, someone who was trying to support public services and infrastructure and fortify them, instead of selling them off to the most well connected bidder.
Like, I dunno, another political party, or something.
Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
ReplyDeleteYes! Also, too: Fraud exists, so helping people is immoral.
ReplyDeleteWow! That's a lotta fraud! Why, America must be the worst country in the world!
ReplyDeleteSome rich jerk will make a lot of money "testing" poor people's pee.
ReplyDeleteYup, that's the result that Texas is finding so compelling, I reckon.
ReplyDeleteThe shoe thing really bothers me, because I think holding a gift you give hostage over somebody's behavior is a dick move.
ReplyDeleteI get vaguely offended when street beggars tell me that they won't spend money I give them on booze or drugs, because frankly, I don't think it's any of my business what they spend money I give them on. When I give people money it's because it's nice to have money and sometimes I have extra.
If you're giving a gift, whether it's to a friend or a stranger, it shouldn't have strings attached.
If you're worried about shoe fraud, give your boots to a shoe charity that does means testing or something. Complaining that you gave something to someone who later turned out to be a jerk is really guache. Complaining that somebody else gave something to a jerk is REALLY out of bounds.
Careful what you say, Tbogg will have your nuts hippie.
ReplyDeleteWhat about putting the already engraved headstone on his head. Otherwise that would be wasteful, and he hates that.
ReplyDelete...I think holding a gift you give hostage over somebody's behavior is a dick move.
ReplyDeleteIt is, but then you are not a spiteful authoritarian.
...
The ult (likely penultimate shorter.)
ReplyDeleteFraud for me, but not for thee!!!
...
Because I am waiting for a basketball game to start I thought I would bounce to the original article...I made it as far as the following graphs. What a fucking Sociopath.
ReplyDeleteNo doubt you were shocked, shocked to learn that Jeffrey Hillman, the
“barefoot beggar” who famously received a free pair of boots from a
kindly NYPD cop, turned out to be a scam artist who preys on the
kindness of strangers to provide him with an apartment, money and plenty
of footwear — as a Post investigation discovered.
That’s right — someone pretending to be in dire straits turns out to be a) not destitute, b) not homeless and c) not shoeless.
But
then, Hillman’s just a piker when it comes to the rising culture of
sham dependency that is rapidly turning this country from a nation of
self-reliant citizens to shuffling pseudo-mendicants and conniving
criminals who have one hand extended to collect government largesse
while the other is busily picking your pocket.
There is plenty in there to parse, and I feel a little unclean for giving Rupert a hit..."...shocked, shocked..."
Has this Walsh Fellow ever had to attempt to be a credit to his race or even acknowledge the need?
/Rhetorical...Finds soothing personal head shaped dent in WaterTiger's desk and slams my head home.
...