Thursday, October 11, 2012

FOLKS, FOLLOW YOUR INSTINCT ON THIS ONE. Paul Ryan's a punk, and Joe Biden's treating him like one.

UPDATE. Really, no matter how the Villagers react to this, it is a great pleasure to watch someone just laugh at this bullshit -- and heckle it!

I mean, when you have reactions like this...


... you know you're making the clowns sad.

UPDATE 2. I mean, Ryan's transparently full of shit. Here he is talking about "fighting seasons" and "the pass filling with snow." I guess he saw Iron Eagle once. And when he gets peppy it's just repulsive. He swings his head around like a grounded teenager who can't be-leeeeve what a douche Dad is being.

UPDATE 3. Aaaagh, Ryan is turning his puppy-dog eyes and insurance-salesman schtick directly toward the camera now. If people ain't barfing this isn't the country I thought it was.

UPDATE 4. I was stupid enough to watch this debate but not stupid enough to watch the rabid apes who do TV commentary afterwards. However, the Twitter machine tells me the GOP/Villager line is that Biden was rude to Ryan. Rude is more than Ryan deserves. He's lucky to walk out of there without a pierced ear.

I could say something substantial about the whole thing but I've already written about Ryan's granny-starving and the affection it engenders among the brethren. It's been a long hard day, I deserve a break, and TV wrestling's not what it used to be.

UPDATE 5. In comments, Batocchio:
Civility has its place, but honesty over civility, accuracy over politeness. Alternatively, if you define "civility" in part as showing respect for the truth, a liar has broken the implicit contract of the debate/discussion, and as a moral matter should be called out. (Not that that happens much in the Village, but boy, it's awesome when it does.)
Every politician -- well, every successful one -- fudges the truth a bit, but Ryan is such a three-shift lie factory that to mock and deride him is not only a pleasure but also a duty. I may be too forgiving of Joe Biden's type of malarkey, not only because I wear a Team Blue jacket, but also because it's old-fashioned (In fact I don't think I've heard the word "malarkey" spoken aloud since I was a boy), and judge Ryan more harshly (you can't judge him too harshly) because his lies are delivered with the cold efficiency of slaughterhouse machinery. But that's okay; the victory of the human is welcome however it comes; I prefer Spencer Tracy's Frank Skeffington to his Nixon manqué opponent Kevin McCluskey in The Last Hurrah, too.

98 comments:

  1. Mark B.10:12 PM

    This is a real ass whipping. Laughing at Ryan is an effective strategy.

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  2. Goopers is mad.

    HOW DARE THEY USE OUR TACTICS AGIN' US!
    ~

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  3. Leeds man10:21 PM

    Ryan's transparently full of shit

    I can't bring myself to watch these things, but so what? Wasn't Romney transparently full of shit as well? How did that work out? God, I hope Biden destroys the prat, but who knows the heart of the Great American Undecided Moron?

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  4. It's being focus-group tested live, with little trending graphs.

    If you watched, you'd want to kill yourself.
    ~

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  5. Mark B.10:44 PM

    That was devastating. How long before Romney drops Ryan from the ticket.

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  6. M. Krebs10:44 PM

    The only apparent difference between Ryan and Sarah Palin is that Ryan seems to be able to read.

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  7. DocAmazing10:55 PM

    The Wink is coming...any minute now...

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  8. synykyl10:57 PM

    ... If people ain't barfing this isn't the country I thought it was ...

    I don't know what county you thought this was, but if it was the country it ought to be, no one would ever have heard of that lying motherfucker.

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  9. that poor twink

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  10. So... Mitch McConnell thinks that Biden smiled and laughed too much, which is rich coming from that gargoyle. And oh, by the way... if you were watching tonight, Mr. President... Ya see how this is SUPPOSED to be done?

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  11. Of course, the Republicans and centrists are crying about Biden's shocking incivility. David Brooks was on Newshour trying to frame it as baby boomers disrespecting the Reagan Youth.

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  12. and slightly off topic, but can i just say how offensive and gross is that that offensive and gross man podhorowich or whatever uses a baby which i assume is his as his twitter avatar? he's like one of the most offensive and gross people on the internet, on the whole of the internet, that place where you can see a video of that guy from canada fuck a dead guy and then eat him, and using that baby picture alongside all of the base and disgusting shit he tweets out is like some kind of mental pedophilia and it makes me want to shower every fucking time i see it.

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  13. Scott Slemmons11:22 PM

    Oh no, Biden was rude? But I was told that politics is beanbag!

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  14. Fats Durston11:46 PM

    I didn't watch, 'cause work that I'm neglecting even now. But I, Lawd help meh, glanced at a tweet aggregator. Pretty sure Biden was winning (or "winning") at the time, as Republican tweets all fussy about Biden's interruptions, condescension, and the moderator's lack of control over the proceedings. Then they went on to reassure themselves it was a tie. Just like Vietnam, eh, guys?

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  15. Mark B.12:04 AM

    CNN poll adds up to 102%. Even with rounding you can't do that with only two options. Their math is kinda suspect.

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  16. Well, I'm sure Paul Ryan will be a fine VIce-Presidential candidate one day when his balls finally drop.

    Wait - no he won't.

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  17. Another Kiwi12:19 AM

    Biden has hurt the Ryanfans fee-fees. UNKIND!!!

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  18. Mark B.12:40 AM

    Bleah, bad adding on my part. 8% undecided. Still having a hard time figuring out what debate the CNN polees were watching. The one I saw was a rout for Biden.

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  19. Mark B.12:42 AM

    Comment sorting in Disqus seems sort of random. Not chronological at all.

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  20. I think I'm getting old cause Ryan just looks like such a baby to me. I can't take him seriously at all.

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  21. whetstone12:43 AM

    When Ryan said that "Mitt is a car guy" what Biden was about to do to him was so instantly clear I had to look away from the screen. When JPod says that Ryan is at the level of VP i assume he's using the boot full of warm piss metric.

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  22. whetstone12:47 AM

    Mitch is jealous that Biden can laugh and smile without looking like he's daydreaming about getting rid of the FDA.

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  23. calling all toasters12:53 AM

    ...and then denies it!

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  24. Formerly_Nom_De_Plume12:55 AM

    Republican tweets all fussy about Biden's interruptions, condescension, and the moderator's lack of control over the proceedings


    Oh, so pretty much like the Dem reaction after the Obama/Romney debate? So you're saying we won this one.

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  25. Formerly_Nom_De_Plume12:58 AM

    Wingnuts are crying foul about rudeness, meaning Biden laughed at them and their awful ideas, which they can't stand. Frankly, I just don't think Obama has it in him to duplicate this performance in his next debate. Though I'd love to see him slapping his knee and guffawing like a motherfucker at Romney. But as a black man, he's just not allowed.

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  26. Leeds man1:41 AM

    Imagine the wingnut (and smelling-salt Beltway crowd) reaction if Biden had pulled something as reptilian as Ryan's car anecdote (which I just heard about, and could hardly believe).

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  27. montag21:45 AM

    Brooks can go fuck himself with Phyllis Schlafly's broom.

    Just how young are the so-called "Raygun Youth" of Brooksy's imagination? Paul Doofus Ryan was ten years old when Ronnie Raygun was elected. C'mon, all that Ryan was interested in then were fart jokes and throwing firecrackers under the feet of old folks.

    Come to think of it, that's all he's still interested in.

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  28. Check your settings - on the Discussion tab at the top of the thread, you can sort by Best, Newest, or Oldest. Sometimes your preference sticks the next time you visit, sometimes it doesn't. (If it's not that, I dunno...)

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  29. Funny, I'd say lying is rude.


    Civility has its place, but honesty over civility, accuracy over politeness. Alternatively, if you define "civility" in part as showing respect for the truth, a liar has broken the implicit contract of the debate/discussion, and as a moral matter should be called out. (Not that that happens much in the Village, but boy, it's awesome when it does.)

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  30. Halloween_Jack9:40 AM

    Biden's great trick is that he's a gunslinger who acts the part of the goofy sidekick until it's time to slap leather. Remember all those people who were "advising" Obama to drop him and recruit another veep, like HRC? Heh.

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  31. Marilyn Merlot9:43 AM

    On the other hand, if you believe those tweets are made BY an infant, you do become more forgiving.

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  32. Marilyn Merlot9:43 AM

    Eh, I'm 24 and he looks like a grade school hall monitor to me.

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  33. Er, Chris Matthews didn't melt down because of the moderator, he melted down because Obama got beaten.

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  34. mortimer9:45 AM

    It was so delicious I was expecting Biden to start answers with "Listen, Sonny."
    Reading the transcript is almost as much fun as watching Biden hand Ryan his ass on a plate.
    Stuff like this:

    RYAN: On two occasions we -- we -- we advocated for constituents who were applying for grants. That's what we do. We do that for all constituents who are...

    (CROSSTALK) BIDEN: I love that. I love that. This was such a bad program and he writes me a letter saying -- writes the Department of Energy a letter saying, "The reason we need this stimulus, it will create growth and jobs." His words. And now he's sitting here looking at me.

    Just swell.

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  35. chuckling10:05 AM

    As an undecided independent, and I think it's safe for me to speak for all undecided independents, I can tell you that I didn't watch the debate. I went in the living room, thought it strange the television was off, turned it on and started flipping channels. When I found politicians on most of them, I kept flicking, but to no avail. So I went back to my room and read, which was much more satisfying. I'm currently reading books by Bolaño and Calvino. Neither is what you'd call a page turner so I go back and forth. So in that sense, it was kind of like a debate. Reading Bolaño and Calvino simultaneously is also kind of like a debate in that the are mostly just making stuff up. In the particular case of these two books, "The Baron in the Trees" and "Monsier Pain," they are both living in the past, one the distant past, as well, not so unlike our politicians. But I don't feel any need to pick a winner. They're both excellent writers telling interesting stories. The whole idea that everything is a competition and there must always be a winner is crazy. Anyway, since you asked, that's an update on what the Great American Undecided folk are thinking post-debate. That, and the weather's wonderful this morning. Sure would be nice to take a little trip up to the mountains and experience the awesome fall foliage.

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  36. chuckling10:06 AM

    If you watched, you'd want to kill yourself.


    Yep.

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  37. It looks like he wants to disassociate himself from his statements and put them in the mouth of his toddler. And yes, I do have to cry foul at that.

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  38. Agreed. Republicans complaining about incivility from others is like ... well, it's like alicublog commenters complaining about incivility from others.

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  39. Mr. Wonderful10:39 AM

    Or for an audience of infants. Because they can't read!

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  40. PulletSurprise10:41 AM

    In re: Ryan - is the water chugging his attempt to keep his "marathon man" image alive? Or was it that his body was putting forth such a sustained effort to generate this unremitting line of bullshit that it was starting to take a steep toll on his lean tissue?


    Stay hydrated, kids!

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  41. The greatest sin, if you believe a wingnut, is to mock them.

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  42. Waingro10:49 AM

    McConnell is jealous that Biden doesn't resemble the Tootsie Pop Owl.

    http://www.apollopony.net/images/tootsie_pop.jpg

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  43. Mr. Wonderful10:56 AM

    I'm still waiting for a more compelling one-liner than "Politics is show business for ugly people." Ever since the invention of tv, it sure has been. As such, "debates" like these are the opposite of Oxford contests of ideas. They're auditions. Biden not only knew his lines, he knew his character. Obama in the first one, not so much. If Obama keeps showing up to play the unfazed college lecturer, he's toast. People don't watch tv to think about stuff. They watch everything, from drama to comedy to fucking news-weather-and-sports, to feel something.

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  44. KatWillow11:09 AM

    Why would those tough, strong, independent RandianMen be concerned with a little rudeness?

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  45. Leeds man12:17 PM

    I think it's safe for me to speak for all undecided independents

    No it's not. Whatever else you might be, you're not a moron. Your opinion wouldn't be swayed by "style". And yes, the weather is magnificent. Enjoy.

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  46. PulletSurprise12:19 PM

    Lipstick. Also too.

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  47. Halloween_Jack12:47 PM

    He's not just in touch with his inner child, he outsources as much of his work to it as he can.

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  48. JennOfArk12:51 PM

    Biden gave Ryan's "ideas" all the respect they deserve.


    Which is to say, none at all.


    Good on Biden.


    I go back to my analysis of the Obama-Rmoney debate - any time someone tries to defend one of their ideas from a rebuttal that includes a citation of facts by simply reiterating what they said the first time, they're lying. Biden did a good job of calling out the facts on Ryan's bullshit; Ryan's response in every single instance was to simply repeat what he had already said, the rhetorical equivalent of "is too!" or "because I SAID SO!" I know that half of all Americans are of below average intelligence, but the other half can't have failed to catch on to this, because it was the only rhetorical trick in Ryan's bag.

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  49. Marilyn Merlot1:24 PM

    I'll admit I fall into the camp of "mostly disappointed leftist who votes Democratic more out of fear of Republican psychotics than enthusiasm for Democratic candidates", but goddamn that debate got me excited. The last time that happened was Clinton's DNC speech.

    What I wouldn't give to have Biden debate Romney...

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  50. Formerly_Nom_De_Plume1:42 PM

    What's with all the downvotes in this thread? And yeah, I'm only bitching 'cause I got a couple earlier. This new system allows for butthurt wingnuts to drive by and drop a turd without having to show their faces. Which, now that I think of it, isn't entirely bad.

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  51. BigHank531:48 PM

    Political TV and I reached that point in 2003.

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  52. Leeds man1:55 PM

    For the same reason that The Creator of the Cosmos, Master of All, seems to be offended by gay blowjobs.

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  53. The Dark Avenger1:58 PM

    The sample size was 300+ people, hardly representative of anything above the level of a subdivision.

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  54. PaminBB2:03 PM

    Fail, Biden isn't even a boomer (b. 1942).

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  55. Cram it, squinchnose. Plus, you smell.

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  56. Jimcima2:24 PM

    Apparently the supporters of the Islamo-fascist-commie-socialist-Indonesian - Kenyan-anti-colonialist-Alinsky blah man in the White House are being quite unfair in their characterization of Mr. Ryan.

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  57. KatWillow3:44 PM

    Repugs have been relying upon Dems "civility" for decades. If dems finally decide to get down n'dirty they'll find the repug opponents are paper elephants, full of elephant crap and nothing else.

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  58. KatWillow3:45 PM

    A creepy, ugly baby.

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  59. KatWillow3:47 PM

    Yes, I hope the "down" ratings can be removed, or maybe replaced with "EXTRA EXTRA Like" ratings

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  60. satch4:16 PM

    Now, Obama should know what he has to do. The question is, will/can he? Though I like him, Obama never really impressed me in his debates in the '08 primary, or with McCain. It's just not something he seems to do well at, and watching him during the Romney debate was like watching a drunk trying to cross the freeway... I was just relieved when he made it to the end without getting completely flattened. Sure, Biden's performance teed things up for Obama, but he still needs to bring his A Game, and I don't know whether he has one.

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  61. satch4:21 PM

    It might be just the odd commenter (like me once or twice) fooling around with the buttons to see how they work. I miss JS/Kit's system of attaching names to the "likes", especially when I come back multiple times and can't remember whether I "liked" a comment before.

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  62. Mark B.5:07 PM

    The right wing butt hurt has been pretty extreme today. They really hate it when people fight back.

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  63. MyPetGloat5:28 PM

    Mister P90X Congressman Douchebag got schooled!

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  64. M. Krebs5:59 PM

    Ah, JSKit, we hardly knew ye.

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  65. synykyl6:14 PM

    I dunno. We kiss each others ass here enough as it is. (Not that we don't all deserve it ;-)

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  66. synykyl6:16 PM

    What? Because they don't exist?

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  67. Halloween_Jack6:29 PM

    I know, right? If somebody wants to take out their butthurtitude at Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver getting schooled by the Onion's favorite veep ever by drive-by downvoting a comment that I dashed off this morning while I was still in my underwear and nursing that all-important first cup of coffee of the day, well, who am I to deny them? No skin off my nose, that's for sure.

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  68. synykyl6:37 PM

    No matter what level of detail you examine Brooks at, the percentage of bullshit is still the same. The guy is a god damned fractal.

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  69. stratplayer6:46 PM

    It seems to me that the media are trying to jump on the "Rude Biden" bandwagon but it's not catching on quite as readily as the "Aloof and Disengaged Obama" nonsense did. I honestly put an awful lot of the blame on Sully and other alleged Obama backers for putting fucking cinder blocks on their panic buttons and making it so much easier for the media to declare a total debacle.

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  70. ckc_not_kc6:49 PM

    ...hence the value of downvotes

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  71. wileywitch7:23 PM

    That same odd "God" needs a couple of nuclear arsenals to destroy this tiny spec in the universe that is our planet. That "God" is ridiculous.

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  72. tigrismus7:37 PM

    especially when I come back multiple times and can't remember whether I "liked" a comment before.


    If the number and arrow are blue you've liked it, if gray you haven't.

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  73. JennOfArk7:42 PM

    You and me both. It wasn't just Sully though; the night of the debate the hand-wringing was on full display at places like Balloon Juice. Me, I looked at it and thought Obama missed a lot of chances to take potshots, but on the other hand, actually answered questions honestly and in detail, as opposed to the fragrant but ultimately empty-calorie bullshit Rmoney continued to shovel throughout. It never occurred to me that simply showing up jittery on a first-ever caffeine high was all it took to be considered the "winner" and in fact I thought Rmoney came across as a glib, fast-talking snake oil salesman.


    Still, I can't forgive Obama (or Biden either, for that matter) for continuing to allow the "job creator" bullshit frame to go unchallenged. Demand is the only fucking thing that creates jobs and rich guy business owners didn't get rich by hiring people to do work for which there is no fucking demand, which is why none of them would be stupid enough to take a tax cut and hire people to do work there's no demand for...they might as well just set the money on fire. And I'm getting goddamned tired of not hearing that patent bullshit challenged. You want jobs? Get money into the hands of people who don't have any rather than giving it to people who already have more than they can use. The former will spend it while the latter will just toss it into their horde with the rest of the cash they've got lying around. One of these things will create jobs while the other will actually slow job creation even further. Guess which one we continue to be told is the solution to the problem? Fuck that fucking bullshit.

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  74. satch7:57 PM

    Since I have Firefox set to Private Browsing, every time I log out it wipes the cookies, so logging back in is like the first time ever.

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  75. Leeds man8:17 PM

    One of these things will create jobs while the other will actually slow job creation even further.

    That ill-informed voters don't get it isn't surprising. That the Masters of the Universe don't get it is mind-boggling. They're betting against their own self-interest. They're like the chimps and human infants who value immediate reward over longer-term gain, even though they know the stakes.

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  76. tigrismus8:41 PM

    Oh, well, in that case you should just like everything every time ;-)

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  77. redoubt8:59 PM

    There was a Wild Colonial Boy
    Paul Ryan was his name
    He was born and bred in Reagan-land
    To Washington he came
    They said, "Challenge the Vice-President!
    Small Government's a joy!"
    But Joe Biden put the stompyfoot
    on Wild Colonial Boy. . ."

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  78. I have to look into that. I don't even know if the system keeps you from re-upping your vote based on IP addresses. One thing I do know, from attempts: This is a bitch of a system to do anything with on iPhone.

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  79. JennOfArk9:04 PM

    That's what makes it so much fun.

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  80. M. Krebs9:19 PM

    By god, I think you've stumbled upon a rich vein of research: The fractal geometry of conservative bullshit!

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  81. tigrismus9:40 PM

    So you're saying we won this one. Excellent.


    OOH that's awesome. We also now get to claim Paul Ryan is being mean whenever he laughs. Of course, as it's usually at something like an old man being roughed up we'll STILL be right.

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  82. M. Krebs9:43 PM

    Same here. But it was 2008 before I cancelled my cable. Still glad about that decision—irrespective of the fact that it's thus far saved me about $4000.

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  83. wileywitch9:45 PM

    Just finished watching the debate. One thing I would really like to have heard Biden say on the issue of Iran and ayatollahs is that the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons in 20005 and that the President of Iran has about as much power to rule over Iran as Biden has to rule the U.S. as VP.


    Halfway through I stopped wanting to punch Ryan in the face, because I felt like kicking his teeth in instead. He's an evil Eddie Haskel.

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  84. Another Kiwi11:03 PM

    But, but, scary people!!! These pants aren't going to pee themselves, you know.

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  85. BigHank5311:51 PM

    Once you believe that the Chicago Boys are economists instead of nasty right-wing authoritarian thugs, and that Ayn Rand is a philosospher rather than a writer of turgid third-rate thrillers, you're better than halfway to believing anything.

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  86. BigHank5311:52 PM

    Did you pick out that avatar yourself, or did you lose a bet?

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  87. KatWillow12:26 AM

    Probably he believes that just allowing Rmoney to talk uninterrupted, people would see for themselves what a lying bastard he is. However our "liberal media" lavished praise on the lying liar and sneered at the calm but truthful person.

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  88. John D10:13 AM

    Rethugs complaining about incivility is not unlike grotesquely obese men wearing "No Fat Chicks" t-shirts.

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  89. It's a couple of days out now from the debate, and I'm surprised there's been little mention of a brief exchange that really stood out to me. Martha Raddatz asked Ryan: "What's worse...another war in the Middle East, or a nuclear armed Iran?" Ryan didn't even hesitate, saying a nuclear armed Iran. Jesus.. John Bolton and Dan Senor are so far up Ryan's and Romney's asses that they'd start another Middle East war. No wonder they want all that increased Pentagon spending.

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  90. It's interesting to me. President Obama behaves in a civil, polite, and restrained manner while Governor Romney lies his ASS off, interrupts, and generally acts like the bullying entitled douchebag conman he is. Result: Right wing applauds, celebrates, calls President a wimp and a turkey. Vice President Biden walks all over Congressman Ryan (who, in the rules of the debate, demands to be called "Mister" because he doesn't want the electorate to remember his actual job). Biden does this by (gasp) telling the truth and constantly calling Ryan on Ryan's constant attempts to bullshit, lie, and act like douchebag Romney. Result: Right wing cries and moans and wrings its hands and says "Not fair not fair Biden is a meanie!" Plus, Obama-Biden supporters better not celebrate or feel good about this at all, because nobody cares and don't be bad winners plus shut up, just shut up!

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  91. LittlePig10:40 AM

    Yeah, but Paul Winchell's voice is a lot easier on the ears (difficult as that may be to believe)

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  92. LittlePig10:44 AM

    And jist wher' would yeh be likin' yer Internets delivered, me boyo?

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  93. I find lying to people a lot more offensive than over-the-top gesticulating.

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  94. DocAmazing5:17 PM

    Let's find out...

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  95. Halloween_Jack6:54 PM

    As I'm sure you're aware (being the official logoist for LGM and all), Bobo begs to differ..

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  96. I do think there's something to be said for the fact that Ryan didn't end up crying and running off the stage.


    I mean... It's like if I held my own in a fight with a championship boxer. Even if I don't win, the fact that I walk away at all is sort of a win.


    That being said, Biden ran over Ryan, backed up,m ran over him a couple more times, all while MAYBE drunk and MAYBE not realizing the camera was running.

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  97. Big_Bad_Bald_Bastard7:52 PM

    He was playing the debate drinking game, so he had to drink whenever he told a lie.

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  98. Big_Bad_Bald_Bastard8:03 PM

    I wish to roam the mountainside, plundering and riding with this comment, all the while scorning to live in slavery, bound down by iron chains.

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